Aliexpress selling GENUINE Duet Boards?
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I think T3P3 discontinued their Mini Kossel kits because it was too hard to compete with the many Mini Kossel kits coming from China, even though the T3p3 kit was much better.
If you look at their listing at https://www.think3dprint3d.com/3D-Printer-Kits/Kossel-Mini-3dPrinter-Kit you will see that they are now producing a limited number of Kossel XL kits. These are similar to my design at https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com/dc42s-large-kossel-build/ except that the frame is black and the bed heater is 24V.
The other kits I know of that use the Duet are https://www.ultibots.com/d300vs-3d-printer-diy-kit/ and https://www.seemecnc.com/collections/diy-3d-printer-kits/products/artemis-300.
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deckingman, nice printer, but well, our printer design is more the printer for the average user for a very attractive price (The standard 300x300x350 is around 450 Euros). And the dimensions are not fixed, neither is the hotend. We have users, that built an EVO with 600x600x1000 that runs very nice and still is easy to build. More than 130 have built one until now, can not be that bad
And the Thingiverse list shows of course the cheapest possible way to build that printer. But the advantage is the possibility to upgrade, no? And many have upgraded to the Duet Wifi.
And where is your design published and shared? -
deckingman, nice printer, but well, our printer design is more the printer for the average user for a very attractive price (The standard 300x300x350 is around 450 Euros). And the dimensions are not fixed, neither is the hotend. We have users, that built an EVO with 600x600x1000 that runs very nice and still is easy to build. More than 130 have built one until now, can not be that bad
And the Thingiverse list shows of course the cheapest possible way to build that printer. But the advantage is the possibility to upgrade, no? And many have upgraded to the Duet Wifi.
And where is your design published and shared?Hi. My post was meant to be "tongue in cheek" hence the smiley. No offence meant. It's just that you said yours was "the ultimate coreXY" so I felt obliged to mention my own. Mine is a "one off" that continues to "evolve" hence I haven't shared the design as it keeps changing. And yes, for sure a printer like is very much more expensive and definitely not for the average, "sane" person to build. Once again, no offence intended, I was just having a little fun.
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Please help spread the word on other forums!Doing my best - my blog gets between 50 and 200 visits per day and my YouTube channel gets around 400-500 views a month. I mention Duet a fair bit in both
Your youtube channel… how is it called?
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@DR8:
….........Your youtube channel... how is it called?
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I have to say that your attitudes to being copied like this make me really proud and happy that I decided to go with the duet wifi. I researched 32 bit boards for quite some time before settling on the duet.
Luckily I was about to go with the (what I think is WAY over hyped) smoothieboard, but got majorly turned off of it by the designer Arthur Wolf who in many forums bashed anyone else trying to do a 32 bit board and pretty much trashed anybody who bought a smoothie clone.While I do think that Arthur has an attitude problem, I understand that situation a little differently. They're fine with people that make smoothieboards, for example, they're OK with Cohesion3D and Panucatt, for example. What they don't appreciate are the outfits that make their own closed source version (violating the license) and don't support the product they're selling. So it's these sellers leaching from them in two different directions.
I don't consider smoothieboard overhyped, but the Duet platform is clearly better in many ways.
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@DR8:
….........Your youtube channel... how is it called?
WOW! That is a really impressive 3D printer dude! :)))) Congrats!
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I have to say that your attitudes to being copied like this make me really proud and happy that I decided to go with the duet wifi. I researched 32 bit boards for quite some time before settling on the duet.
Luckily I was about to go with the (what I think is WAY over hyped) smoothieboard, but got majorly turned off of it by the designer Arthur Wolf who in many forums bashed anyone else trying to do a 32 bit board and pretty much trashed anybody who bought a smoothie clone.While I do think that Arthur has an attitude problem, I understand that situation a little differently. They're fine with people that make smoothieboards, for example, they're OK with Cohesion3D and Panucatt, for example. What they don't appreciate are the outfits that make their own closed source version (violating the license) and don't support the product they're selling. So it's these sellers leaching from them in two different directions.
I don't consider smoothieboard overhyped, but the Duet platform is clearly better in many ways.
Smoothie do have a difficult wicket as there are a lot of clones and a lot of people wanting them to support them. Whether this will be as big a problem for duet or for us as currently there are not that many clones in circulation I don't know. But whilst I will respond to general questions anything specific like why is my sensor not working, will provoke me to ask what was your order number and can you confirm your name etc….
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… But whilst I will respond to general questions anything specific like why is my sensor not working, will provoke me to ask what was your order number and can you confirm your name etc....
We may have to start doing this too, because I can't afford to spend a lot of time supporting users who have bought third-party boards. The processor used in the Duet has a unique serial number, and we can use that to determine which Duets came from us.
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We may have to start doing this too, because I can't afford to spend a lot of time supporting users who have bought third-party boards. The processor used in the Duet has a unique serial number, and we can use that to determine which Duets came from us.
This isn't my area of expertise by any means but some time ago I built a NAS which uses something called Unraid. The software resides on a USB memory stick and to use it, you supply the GUID of the memory stick and in return, receive a key which is linked to that GUID. I don't know if something like that would be a viable solution. i.e. purchasers of genuine boards receive a key which is tied to the processor unique serial number. So the software won't work with clones (because they won't be able to obtain a key). I guess that would infringe on the "Open Source" nature of what you are doing though? Dunno - just a thought…..
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This isn't my area of expertise by any means but some time ago I built a NAS which uses something called Unraid. The software resides on a USB memory stick and to use it, you supply the GUID of the memory stick and in return, receive a key which is linked to that GUID. I don't know if something like that would be a viable solution. i.e. purchasers of genuine boards receive a key which is tied to the processor unique serial number. So the software won't work with clones (because they won't be able to obtain a key). I guess that would infringe on the "Open Source" nature of what you are doing though? Dunno - just a thought…..
In no way a USB memory stick can be a reliable access key. It can be cloned with a standard PC and minimal googling. On hardware IP protection. All big software companies have
tried and failed on this thorny way. IMO it isn't worth efforts trying that for this type of hardware/software/firmware we consider, not to mention "Open Source". -
no but having to provide the CPU Seial number or whatever it is to be able to get support is a valid way to deal with this
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Fully agreed, support should be authorized.
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Bet the clones don't come with stickers
Or the connector kit and a SD card
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Or just send forum invites with Duet order confirmations.
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Just a quick thought… I decided to go "the Duet way" especially because I was able to get a look at the forums here before buying and IIRC even asking some pre-sales questions. In fact, the support level one gets here is a major reason for me recommending the Duet ecosystem. It might be rather harmful to shut down that "pre-sales channel".
I don't know about the forum software, but perhaps known owners of a valid Duet (via CPUID) might get a kind of "trusty user badge" as a start? Once the "unauthorized support level" starts picking up, the users with that badge might get priority support...
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It might be rather harmful to shut down that "pre-sales channel".
I think that the pre-sales channel can still exists through other users, even if David does not answer. Same for questions from users owning clones. RRF is free software, and so must lives on any hardware, even clones.
But again, I agree that people making money with the hardware, like David, should not spend (too much) time with clone owners.
Don't forget that these users can also provide good support on the firmware, helping others, even those owning genuine hardwares.
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i thought duet was open hardware.
imho, trying to prevent users from buying clone with whatever solution (cpuid to get access to forum, cpuid to prevent software to run on clones, and so on) is a waste of time. The only thing you will gain is a very bad reputation from the OSS & OSH world.Not that I support clones, I specifically bought my kossel xl from T3P3 to support you guys.
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Ye, it is open hardware, but with a specific license (see above).
I agree about solutions proposed, like cpuid: it is not great. But you can't ask people who spend time in developing hardware and make money with it to answer those who didn't buy their products. But, as I said, other users can.
David makes a great support job, and like many others, that's why I chose this board. If he can't live of what he's doing anymore, I don't think he will continue to spend time helping us. So, if things turn this way, everybody will loose; genuine and clone buyers. So, this problem can't be ignored.
I think business model like Arduino one should be studied: there are many clones, and they still survive.
I myself don't have any solution to propose; I can only promote the genuine board.
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I wouldn't for a moment suggest limiting the forum access or making it "genuine buyers only" for all the good reasons above. But it might be uneconomical for the DUet team to be simulating users problems and spending a great deal of time solving issues that might be issues limited to clone boards. Its just finding a way to finesse it.
The issue is because the clone vendors use the name of the company they copy, and often link their documentation, buyers sometimes really don't realise they are buying a copy of the product.
