Aliexpress selling GENUINE Duet Boards?
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I have to say that your attitudes to being copied like this make me really proud and happy that I decided to go with the duet wifi. I researched 32 bit boards for quite some time before settling on the duet.
Luckily I was about to go with the (what I think is WAY over hyped) smoothieboard, but got majorly turned off of it by the designer Arthur Wolf who in many forums bashed anyone else trying to do a 32 bit board and pretty much trashed anybody who bought a smoothie clone.While I do think that Arthur has an attitude problem, I understand that situation a little differently. They're fine with people that make smoothieboards, for example, they're OK with Cohesion3D and Panucatt, for example. What they don't appreciate are the outfits that make their own closed source version (violating the license) and don't support the product they're selling. So it's these sellers leaching from them in two different directions.
I don't consider smoothieboard overhyped, but the Duet platform is clearly better in many ways.
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@DR8:
….........Your youtube channel... how is it called?
WOW! That is a really impressive 3D printer dude! :)))) Congrats!
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I have to say that your attitudes to being copied like this make me really proud and happy that I decided to go with the duet wifi. I researched 32 bit boards for quite some time before settling on the duet.
Luckily I was about to go with the (what I think is WAY over hyped) smoothieboard, but got majorly turned off of it by the designer Arthur Wolf who in many forums bashed anyone else trying to do a 32 bit board and pretty much trashed anybody who bought a smoothie clone.While I do think that Arthur has an attitude problem, I understand that situation a little differently. They're fine with people that make smoothieboards, for example, they're OK with Cohesion3D and Panucatt, for example. What they don't appreciate are the outfits that make their own closed source version (violating the license) and don't support the product they're selling. So it's these sellers leaching from them in two different directions.
I don't consider smoothieboard overhyped, but the Duet platform is clearly better in many ways.
Smoothie do have a difficult wicket as there are a lot of clones and a lot of people wanting them to support them. Whether this will be as big a problem for duet or for us as currently there are not that many clones in circulation I don't know. But whilst I will respond to general questions anything specific like why is my sensor not working, will provoke me to ask what was your order number and can you confirm your name etc….
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… But whilst I will respond to general questions anything specific like why is my sensor not working, will provoke me to ask what was your order number and can you confirm your name etc....
We may have to start doing this too, because I can't afford to spend a lot of time supporting users who have bought third-party boards. The processor used in the Duet has a unique serial number, and we can use that to determine which Duets came from us.
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We may have to start doing this too, because I can't afford to spend a lot of time supporting users who have bought third-party boards. The processor used in the Duet has a unique serial number, and we can use that to determine which Duets came from us.
This isn't my area of expertise by any means but some time ago I built a NAS which uses something called Unraid. The software resides on a USB memory stick and to use it, you supply the GUID of the memory stick and in return, receive a key which is linked to that GUID. I don't know if something like that would be a viable solution. i.e. purchasers of genuine boards receive a key which is tied to the processor unique serial number. So the software won't work with clones (because they won't be able to obtain a key). I guess that would infringe on the "Open Source" nature of what you are doing though? Dunno - just a thought…..
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This isn't my area of expertise by any means but some time ago I built a NAS which uses something called Unraid. The software resides on a USB memory stick and to use it, you supply the GUID of the memory stick and in return, receive a key which is linked to that GUID. I don't know if something like that would be a viable solution. i.e. purchasers of genuine boards receive a key which is tied to the processor unique serial number. So the software won't work with clones (because they won't be able to obtain a key). I guess that would infringe on the "Open Source" nature of what you are doing though? Dunno - just a thought…..
In no way a USB memory stick can be a reliable access key. It can be cloned with a standard PC and minimal googling. On hardware IP protection. All big software companies have
tried and failed on this thorny way. IMO it isn't worth efforts trying that for this type of hardware/software/firmware we consider, not to mention "Open Source". -
no but having to provide the CPU Seial number or whatever it is to be able to get support is a valid way to deal with this
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Fully agreed, support should be authorized.
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Bet the clones don't come with stickers
Or the connector kit and a SD card
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Or just send forum invites with Duet order confirmations.
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Just a quick thought… I decided to go "the Duet way" especially because I was able to get a look at the forums here before buying and IIRC even asking some pre-sales questions. In fact, the support level one gets here is a major reason for me recommending the Duet ecosystem. It might be rather harmful to shut down that "pre-sales channel".
I don't know about the forum software, but perhaps known owners of a valid Duet (via CPUID) might get a kind of "trusty user badge" as a start? Once the "unauthorized support level" starts picking up, the users with that badge might get priority support...
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It might be rather harmful to shut down that "pre-sales channel".
I think that the pre-sales channel can still exists through other users, even if David does not answer. Same for questions from users owning clones. RRF is free software, and so must lives on any hardware, even clones.
But again, I agree that people making money with the hardware, like David, should not spend (too much) time with clone owners.
Don't forget that these users can also provide good support on the firmware, helping others, even those owning genuine hardwares.
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i thought duet was open hardware.
imho, trying to prevent users from buying clone with whatever solution (cpuid to get access to forum, cpuid to prevent software to run on clones, and so on) is a waste of time. The only thing you will gain is a very bad reputation from the OSS & OSH world.Not that I support clones, I specifically bought my kossel xl from T3P3 to support you guys.
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Ye, it is open hardware, but with a specific license (see above).
I agree about solutions proposed, like cpuid: it is not great. But you can't ask people who spend time in developing hardware and make money with it to answer those who didn't buy their products. But, as I said, other users can.
David makes a great support job, and like many others, that's why I chose this board. If he can't live of what he's doing anymore, I don't think he will continue to spend time helping us. So, if things turn this way, everybody will loose; genuine and clone buyers. So, this problem can't be ignored.
I think business model like Arduino one should be studied: there are many clones, and they still survive.
I myself don't have any solution to propose; I can only promote the genuine board.
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I wouldn't for a moment suggest limiting the forum access or making it "genuine buyers only" for all the good reasons above. But it might be uneconomical for the DUet team to be simulating users problems and spending a great deal of time solving issues that might be issues limited to clone boards. Its just finding a way to finesse it.
The issue is because the clone vendors use the name of the company they copy, and often link their documentation, buyers sometimes really don't realise they are buying a copy of the product.
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@fma:
…........................Same for questions from users owning clones. RRF is free software, and so must lives on any hardware, even clones.
The trouble with that, is that one can spend a lot of time trying to help people only to later find that the root cause of their problem is that they are using a clone and nothing to do with the firmware. I get a fair few PMs via my blog from people who are having problems with Diamond hot ends (which I have no affiliation to) and I try to help. It's very annoying to find that, after spending a fair amount of time and several emails back and forth that the root cause is that they have a bought a clone which has different internal dimensions or other defects. I've also seen it a lot with people complaining about jamming with their E3D V6 (which I have no affiliation to either), which turns out to be because it was a badly made clone. So a Duet clone could have bad solder joints or other manufacturing defects which might give symptoms that appear to be firmware related, and I personally wouldn't want to waste my time trying to help people who may have these sorts of issues (and I have no affiliation to Duet3D either).
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This guy has no power of selling to europe or america. Let's be honest. It's board is 150$ and if you add all the taxes and fees for import you get a really close value of an original DueWifi Board. So why not to buy the original one?
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Well, thats really why I am not too worried about the piezo sensor clones, they are not much cheaper and take 4 weeks to arrive (and aren't quite made right). I don't sell any to China myself, so it's only the support issues, documentation issue and use of the name that is not ideal. But then open source is a two-sided coin. I still feel that the positives outweigh the negatives by a reasonable amount.
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@DR8:
This guy has no power of selling to europe or america. Let's be honest. It's board is 150$ and if you add all the taxes and fees for import you get a really close value of an original DueWifi Board. So why not to buy the original one?
There are people that will do anything they can to save $10 on buying a $400 CR-10, even if it means risking not getting it because they are buying from some questionable seller.
I'd say most of us here are not in that group since we went with the Duet already. My printer has Duet Wifi, Titan Aero, Meanwell, 2020 v-slot, Openbuilds, etc because I wanted good components, not to save $10 here/there.
$150 for a clone is still a substantial chunk of coin and will be a deterrent, but people will buy them.
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Yes you are right. But people like dc42, creators or resellers or any from the Duet family I don't think they want such customers. So they better go and spend money anywhere else in my opinion. Because these people can't understand what's quality and they will never understand. They ll never understand what does it mean great customer relationship.
Guess what. I bought 3 duet boars, 2 of them were faulty from the factory when i've made my tests. In less than one week I had the other two of them replaced and ready to go. No money, just three more days of waiting. That's it. Now ask for the chinese guy to do so. Most of them don t know english (I'm not a pro also) and what they'll say is: Dear friend, good quality, fast shipping. Even if you ask him what's up? They are not all like this but there's a good probability to find such a seller.
In the end, yeah….I'm sorry for these people. If they want to get rid of all of this for 10$ is their choice. Good business needs wide customers. And I think Duet has allready such a target market.
