PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V

JamesM

Duet boards perform their PWM on the ground side and the positive side stays full voltage. The PWM converter you listed appears to want the PWM on the positive lead so it won't work with the duet. I know I've read there are ways around that but I don't remember what they are.

larsw

E0- is connected to GND on the converter
Heater VIN is connected to PWM on the converter

larsw

@jamesm said in PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V:

Duet boards perform their PWM on the ground side and the positive side stays full voltage. The PWM converter you listed appears to want the PWM on the positive lead so it won't work with the duet. I know I've read there are ways around that but I don't remember what they are.

That makes sense with my observations.

Looking at the board layout, that seems to be the case for the fans too?

What about the !e0heat inversion (which I have tried without luck)?

cjm

@larsw
Just to check, is this is how the PWM board is connected as it should work, provided the jumper on the board is set for “12V to 24V” operation.

VCC	DC 12V-30V                    -> Duet VIN 
GND	Ground.                       -> Duet 0V
PWM	Positive of PWM input signal. -> Duet VIN
GND	Negative of input signal.     -> heater0 pin
VOUT	Output Voltage 0-10V.         -> Analogue Output
GND	Output Voltage Ground         -> Duet 0V

alankilian

@larsw I would connect the PWM board like this:

VCC	DC 12V-30V                    -> Duet VIN 
GND	Ground.                       -> Duet Ground
PWM	Positive of PWM input signal. -> heater0 pin
GND	Negative of input signal.     -> Duet Ground
VOUT	Output Voltage 0-10V.         -> Analogue Output to spindle controller
GND	Output Voltage Ground         -> Ground on the spindle controller

Then, you need a pullup resistor on the PWM input to the converter.
Connect a resistor in the range 2,000 to 10,000 Ohms from the PWM input on the converter to a 5 Volt pin on the Duet.

You can add this resistor on the Duet between the heater0 pin and a 5 Volt pin right at the Duet.

larsw

@cjm:

The jumper is at 24V. I'm not sure exactly which pins you connect. I changed to below to use the names from the Duet 2 wifi board layout. This is how I have it connected.

VCC	DC 12V-30V                    -> Duet VIN at DC powersupply - its 12,8V
GND	Ground.                       -> Duet GND at DC powersupply
PWM	Positive of PWM input signal. -> Heater VIN, it is 12,8V
GND	Negative of input signal.     -> E0-
VOUT	Output Voltage 0-10V.         -> Analogue Output
GND	Output Voltage Ground         -> Duet GND

This results in 10V output no matter M3 Sspeed

larsw

@alankilian I assume that heater0 pin is E0- ?

I have tried this - though without the pullup resistor,
It almost works - if I use !e0heat in the M950 command I can use the M3 command and adjust from 0 to almost 5V in output.

The heater PWM is 12,8V - should this be connected with the pullup resistor to 5V, or was that a mistype?

fcwilt

@larsw

On this device, when disconnected from anything else, can you check if there is continuity between the DC GND pin and the PWM GND pin?

Frederick

alankilian

@larsw said in PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V:

@alankilian I assume that heater0 pin is E0- ?

Yes.

The heater PWM is 12,8V - should this be connected with the pullup resistor to 5V, or was that a mistype?

It should be connected with a pullup to 5 Volts.

This is the PWM control input to the converter and it's designed to be driven from a microcontroller, so it's input range is 0 to 5 Volts according to what I can get out of the data sheet you linked to in your first post.

Does anyone know what "Fengfeng value" might mean" I'm not hitting anything on the google machine.

larsw

@fcwilt said in PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V:

@larsw

On this device, when disconnected from anything else, can you check if there is continuity between the DC GND pin and the PWM GND pin?

Frederick

I just measured and can confirm this.

larsw

@alankilian said in PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V:

@larsw said in PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V:
It should be connected with a pullup to 5 Volts.

This is the PWM control input to the converter and it's designed to be driven from a microcontroller, so it's input range is 0 to 5 Volts according to what I can get out of the data sheet you linked to in your first post.

Actually no - the converter has two PWM input modes - 4,5V to 10V or 12V to 24V. Selectable by a jumper (The documentation calls this a jump needle - had me quite confused). I have jumped it for 12-24V.

Does anyone know what "Fengfeng value" might mean" I'm not hitting anything on the google machine.

Nice to know I was not the only one.. Fengfeng value means peak value. That also took me quite a while to get translated.

alankilian

@larsw said in PWM to 10V via e0heater always gives 10V:

Actually no - the converter has two PWM input modes - 4,5V to 10V or 12V to 24V. Selectable by a jumper (The documentation calls this a jump needle - had me quite confused). I have jumped it for 12-24V.

OK, that's cool. I was getting confused by the data sheet and couldn't quite get that information from it.

Then you can just pull up to the heater supply voltage.

larsw

@alankilian Perfect. Still same resistor range?

alankilian

@larsw Yes, the pullup resistor value is not critical at all.

i generally use 4.7 KOhms for a quickly changing signal (like this) and a 47 KOhm for slowly changing signals like switches.

cjm

@larsw Understood - and the reason this is not working is because the "Negative of the PWM input signal" is connected to Ground as you measured and confirmed in your answer to @fcwilt. This is unlike other similar boards where both positive and negative PWM inputs are fully isolated from ground, in which case this connection works fine.

However, with your board, @alankilian's approach is a good one.

larsw

@cjm Fantastic - I'll try this in the weekend when I get my hands on the machine again.

cjm

@larsw A point to note is that if the photos of your converter board on the web are correct, it uses an opto-isolator with a choice of two series resistor values (selected by the jumpers) to match either 5V or 12V-24V.

The pull-up resistor used in @alankilian’s approach is in series with the opto-isolator’s input resistor and so has to have a low enough value to pass sufficient current to turn on the opto-isolator.

The 2K or 4K values mentioned by @alankilian connected to the heater supply voltage should be fine.

However, some opto-isolators have low efficiency so, if you find you’re not getting reliable results, you might want to try setting the board’s jumper to 5V mode.

dc42

@cjm I agree, from the photo it appears that it has an opto isolator for the input. So why is there continuity between the PWM input ground and the output ground?

alankilian

@dc42 I think I found a picture of the back of the board, and indeed, both the input and output GND connections are to the same net!

Ref: Link.
(And in this photo, PWM might also be shorted to ground Ha ha)

EducatingSavvas

@larsw I tried to use a similar type for an older CNC controller of mine and didn't have any luck. I eventually found and used this type which worked:

PWM to Analogue Converter.jpg
Available from the usual places.