1. Faster processor speed (300Mhz vs 120MHz)
2. Higher current onboard drivers for NEMA23/34 motors
3. More GPIO
   etc, etc...

Why settle for less?

The Wifi 2 is such a popular board, the natural progression would be a Wifi 3. I see the direction going towards being a general CNC controller, but honestly there are much better existing controllers for that already that are well sorted (IE - Centroid Acorn) - I just feel like this is the best 3DP controller on the market...why is it being abandoned/going backwards? Of course, that's my opinion as a customer...with no offense given.

A word to the wise having built several Clearpath retrofits for CNC machines...Buy the Clearpath official power supply (or two if you need them) - to correctly power your motors. Cheesing out on the power supply with these motors will result in chasing your tail, pointing fingers in the wrong direction and a host of other problems that will cost you more than just buying the right kit to begin with. (I say this from 1st hand experience). They're not 'cheap' but they're what you need to do it right.

I just completed (mostly) my custom CR10S5 using a Duet Wifi 2. I really like the RepRap firmware and how easy it is to tweak things. I really don't miss recompiling Marlin...

Since I've been bitten by the proverbial bug...I now want to upgrade some of my other printers to Duet - but aside from the Duet 3 Mini - I didn't see another Duet 3 board with onboard wifi. What's up with that?

Why would I want to add another piece of hardware (RPi) to the board just to get wifi? Is there a wifi module in the works for the flagship board or am I stuck with using the older wifi 2 board? I was so close to pulling the trigger on 2 new Duet 3 boards yesterday and stopped because it doesn't have wifi - only via RPi & I suDon't know enough to be comfortable in Linux...It's painful.

As a side note...I get the part about wifi not being a robust means of COMs in an industrial environment - probably more than most. Are there plans for a Wifi3 variant? Wifi Daughter board? Inquiring minds want to know...

Yeah...'high end' is fine with me. I want the flagship model and don't mind paying for it.

I guess my point is, take any device/appliance that has/had wifi, then 'upgrade' it with better components, like the processor, drivers and IO, but then arbitrarily remove the wifi from it?...I don't get it.

I mean, why would I want to buy another Wifi 2 (which is 5yrs old now) ? No doubt, it's still a great piece of hardware...but I'd prefer the latest and greatest in Wifi form.

Imagine if they came out with a laptop that didn't support wifi - RJ45 only...BUT if you plug in a RPi to it, you can get wifi again. Right?

I'm disappointed nobody chimed in on the first post or two saying something to the effect of, "Oh yeah, the Wifi 3 is coming 2nd Q 21 - It's gonna be great!" But alas...no. 'Budget" aka 'Diet coke' mini 5 or Duet 3 with RPi are the choices.

As a customer I'm thinking to myself, "Wow this Wifi 2 is great! ~ I can hardly wait to buy a Wifi 3!" But it's not the same thing...there's not even a provision on the Duet 3 for a NRF24L01 Wireless Module to plug in ... It just seems awfully backwards to me.

I was wondering how many posts before we'd be comparing processing power of the Pi to the lunar module...

How much longer will the WiFi 2 will be produced before the end of life announcement is made? There are many printer manufacturers out there that use it currently.

@fcwilt I'm sure there are...BUT how many controllers you are likely to see sold on a commercial or industrial CNC machine use a RPi? The answer is zero.

On a 'hobby' machine, anything goes and that's where you see RPi's and Arduino based hardware. Why? The answer ALWAYS is because they are cheap to buy & no other reason.

Buhu Its too expensive.

There is a cheaper option.

But I want the expensive one

... lol + facepalm + thumb down ...

The Duet3 mini (aka 5LC) is the next version of the Duet 2 Maestro, the low end, (relatively) low cost offering. So complaining about it not being as fully featured as the Duet 3 6HC or Duet 2 Wifi/Ethernet makes about as much sense as the rest of of the nonsense you're complaining about as it has a completely different customer base.

I guess I'll leave this thread by dropping the bomb that the CAN bus (currently) in use on both the Duet 3 6HC and mini is CAN-FD, so odds are it won't work with servos (but you'd know that if you bothered to search the forum)

Please - Facepalm yourself a few more times. In fact, keep doing it until I tell you to stop. You didn't comprehend the 'issue'. Go read it again as you seem to have only read the parts that suit you. If you had read my post up-thread, you would get it:

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

1. Faster processor speed (300Mhz vs 120MHz)
2. Higher current onboard drivers for NEMA23/34 motors
3. More GPIO
   etc, etc...

Why settle for less?

I'm fully aware that the Mini 5 is wireless and has less I/O and processor speed than the Duet 3. I don't want it. It doesn't have enough I/O and the onboard drivers don't have enough amps for the motors I want to run. I have already stated this up-thread.

Furthermore - to get what I want in the latest form - it's twice the cost. Somehow me pointing that out is now whining? What do you think that the price is going to come down because I pointed out a simple observation? The price is what it is - doesn't mean I have to like it - AND it doesn't give you carte blanche to be a douche. Take it down a notch.

@oliof said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

if you don't waste the RAM chips, you can still get an RPi4 for 35$.

Thanks for that. Looks like a 2GB Pi4 is $35ish - I'd get the 8GB one because more is "more better" as they say

@Veti said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

you are complaining that the duet 3 with features that not everyone needs is to expensive, yet for you the mini 5 wifi does not have enought features for you.

take your pick really.

My pick would be a Wifi 3...which would be the natural progression from the Wifi 2. To use the analogy again: If you bought an XYZ brand laptop in 2020 for $400 - and then wanted to get another one in 2021 that was supposed to be 'updated' - EXCEPT it doesn't come with wifi anymore - you have to buy a 3rd party add on to get it - oh and it's total cost is now $800 - would you buy it? Chances are the answer would be no.

@deckingman said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

@BDubs I'll just add that the faster processor on gen 3 is actually just a number. It doesn't gain you anything. Until very recently, the maximum step pulse frequency was actually a LOT slower using RRF 3 firmware which is what you have to use with Gen 3, than it is on the older gen 2. I'm still waiting for a stable version of RRF3 to verify if the step pulse frequency is now as good as the older gen 2 product.

I assume that you've also checked out the list of firmware limitations which apply to gen 3 products but which do not apply to gen 2?

Unless you need the higher current driver's or want to run more than 12 steppers, then gen 2 remains the better choice by far (and it gives you the WiFi option without the need to add another layer of complexity and cost in the form of an SBC).

That's just my opinion of course, but I've had every version of Duet products from the earliest 06 boards to the "latest and greatest".

Thanks for that - processor, or rather pulse rate, was the original yard stick when choosing the Duet. Not the same logic as most who are in dreamworld about speed...more like being able to run say 10:1 mechanical reduction and set the driver to full stepping to mitigate the hysteresis associated with microstepping (and torque loss on top of it) - but that's crazy talk because few can ever fathom what I just wrote and the reason behind it.

I'd be interested to know if RRF3 is on par with RRF2 in terms of max pulse rate, too. I'm config'd with RRF3 right now...but may go back to RRF2 after reading what you wrote.

@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

imho again , the main advantage of the 3rd gen board is not the drivers or the cpu . its the CAN bus .
i hope in the future there will be a possibility to connect the duet3 to industrial servo drivers , maybe device net servos also .

Yes...CANBus connectivity is nice. We'll finally be able to use those servos we hoarded off of Ebay that we swore took S&D years ago (or was that just me?)

@Phaedrux Wow dude...You rock! That was it!

I thought I uploaded them to the System folder...not sure where they got loaded to. The Macro folder?

HUGE THANK YOU!

That's a negative on all 3 counts.

However, If I click on my deployprobe macro, it deploys. Clicking on retractprobe macro, it retracts.

Do I need another M307 command for the BLT?

RE: https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/20344/probe-points-with-bltouch/2

M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; Disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch

@Phaedrux said in BLT Manual deploy +HomeZ ok ~ Auto HomeZ = no?:

M122 and M98 P"config.g"

1/1/2021, 5:45:51 PM M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 3.1.1 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
Board ID: 08DGM-9568A-F23SD-6J1F2-3S86Q-KBN7D
Used output buffers: 3 of 24 (12 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 27980
Dynamic ram: 93708 of which 44 recycled
Exception stack ram used: 496
Never used ram: 8844
Tasks: NETWORK(blocked,384) HEAT(blocked,1224) MAIN(running,1848) IDLE(ready,80)
Owned mutexes: WiFi(NETWORK)
=== Platform ===
Last reset 00:01:31 ago, cause: software
Last software reset time unknown, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 9076 bytes (slot 0)
Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0441f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task MAIN
Error status: 0
MCU temperature: min 30.6, current 32.1, max 32.2
Supply voltage: min 24.0, current 24.1, max 24.4, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
Driver 0: standstill, SG min/max 0/289
Driver 1: standstill, SG min/max 214/383
Driver 2: standstill, SG min/max 0/257
Driver 3: standstill, SG min/max not available
Driver 4: standstill, SG min/max not available
Date/time: 2021-01-01 17:45:47
Cache data hit count 151460176
Slowest loop: 6.25ms; fastest: 0.13ms
I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
=== Storage ===
Free file entries: 10
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
SD card longest read time 1.0ms, write time 0.0ms, max retries 0
=== Move ===
Hiccups: 0(0), FreeDm: 169, MinFreeDm: 167, MaxWait: 24574ms
Bed compensation in use: none, comp offset 0.000
=== MainDDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 17, completed moves: 17, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0 CDDA state: -1
=== AuxDDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 0, completed moves: 0, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0 CDDA state: -1
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = -1 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1 -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.0
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Movement lock held by null
HTTP is idle in state(s) 0
Telnet is idle in state(s) 0
File is idle in state(s) 0
USB is idle in state(s) 0
Aux is idle in state(s) 0
Trigger is idle in state(s) 0
Queue is idle in state(s) 0
Daemon is idle in state(s) 0
Autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Network ===
Slowest loop: 15.72ms; fastest: 0.00ms
Responder states: HTTP(2) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0), 0 sessions
HTTP sessions: 1 of 8

• WiFi -
  Network state is active
  WiFi module is connected to access point
  Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
  WiFi firmware version 1.23
  WiFi MAC address 2c:3a:e8:0b:1b:7b
  WiFi Vcc 3.40, reset reason Unknown
  WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 25672
  WiFi IP address 192.168.3.105
  WiFi signal strength -55dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
  Socket states: 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
  === Filament sensors ===
  Extruder 0 sensor: ok

FYI - M98 P"config.g" does nothing when I enter it in & execute

Basically, If tell it to HomeZ (after homing X & Y individually) - it runs the nozzle into the bed.

However...If I deploy the probe pin and then run homeZ, it works as you'd expect. It touches off twice and raises the Z up. It does not retract the pin though...I have to do that manually.

Not running home all until homeZ is good - for obvious reasons.

(More on the other stuff you asked in a few min...)

For some reason, I can't seem to get my BLT working as expected. I followed the online example for wiring, Config.g et al, but I have something either transposed or wrong. Can someone take a look and see if anything sticks out?

FYI - It seems to be wired up correctly. The probe will not automatically deploy when functioning as a Z end stop/Zzero switch. However - If I manually deploy the probe via my 'deployprobe' macro, it does in fact deploy & if I command the Z to home, it does in fact work as expected. Just not sure where my code is messed up.

Yes...there's cleanup to be done deleting extra comments in the code. Thank you in advance for looking...

;BLT Config 1/1/21

; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 3)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.10 on Wed Dec 09 2020 11:04:02 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time)

; General preferences
G90 ; send absolute coordinates...
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"CR10S6" ; set printer name

; Network
M552 S1 ; enable network
M586 P0 S1 ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0 ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0 ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S0 ; physical drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S0 ; physical drive 1 goes backwards
M569 P2 S1 ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S1 ; physical drive 3 goes forwards
M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3 ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E420.00 ; set steps per mm
M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z60.00 E120.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X6000.00 Y6000.00 Z1250.00 E1200.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z40.00 E250.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E900 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
M208 X500 Y500 Z900 S0 ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 S1 P"xstop" ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin xstop
M574 Y1 S1 P"ystop" ; configure active-high endstop for low end on Y via pin ystop
M574 Z1 S2 ; configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z
M591 P1 C"e0stop" S1 D0 ; filament monitor connected to E0 endstop S1=On S0=Off P1=simple sensor (high signal when filament present)

; Z-Probe
M558 P9 C"^zprobe.in" H5 F120 T6000 A10 R0.75 S0.02 ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
M950 S0 C"exp.heater3" ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch on exp.heater3
G31 P500 X-33 Y-1 Z1.438 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
M557 X25:450 Y25:475 S50

; IRPROBE M558 P1 C"zprobe.in" H5 F120 T6000 ; set Z probe type to unmodulated and the dive height + speeds
; IRPROBE G31 P500 X-48 Y-10 Z2.55 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
; IRPROBE M557 X25:450 Y25:475 S50 ; define mesh grid

; Heaters
M140 H-1 ; disable heated bed (overrides default heater mapping)
M308 S0 P"spi.cs1" Y"rtd-max31865" ; configure sensor 0 as thermocouple via CS pin spi.cs1
M950 H0 C"e1heat" T0 ; create nozzle heater output on e1heat and map it to sensor 0
M307 H0 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater and set PWM limit
M143 H0 S290 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 290C

; Fans
M950 F0 C"fan0" Q500 ; create fan 0 on pin fan0 and set its frequency
M106 P0 S0 H-1 ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
M950 F1 C"fan1" Q500 ; create fan 1 on pin fan1 and set its frequency
M106 P1 S1 H T45 ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned on

; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H0 F0 ; define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Custom settings are not defined

; Miscellaneous
M575 P1 S1 B57600 ; enable support for PanelDue
M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss
T0 ;Start up with tool 0 selected in the console

; homez.g
; called to home the Z axis
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.10 on Wed Dec 09 2020 11:04:02 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
G91 ; relative positioning
G1 H2 Z5 F6000 ; lift Z relative to current position
G90 ; absolute positioning
G1 X63 Y25 F6000 ; go to first probe point
;M98 P"^deployprobe.g"
M401 P1; Lower Z probe (BLTouch)
G30 ; home Z by probing the bed
M402 P1; Retract Probe
;M98 P"^retractprobe.g"
; Uncomment the following lines to lift Z after probing
G91 ; relative positioning
G1 Z5 F100 ; lift Z relative to current position
G90 ; absolute positioning

; homeall.g
; called to home all axes
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.10 on Wed Dec 09 2020 11:04:02 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
G91 ; relative positioning
G1 H2 Z5 F6000 ; lift Z relative to current position
G1 H1 X-505 Y-505 F1800 ; move quickly to X and Y axis endstops and stop there (first pass)
G1 H2 X5 Y5 F6000 ; go back a few mm
G1 H1 X-505 Y-505 F360 ; move slowly to X and Y axis endstops once more (second pass)
G90 ; absolute positioning
G1 X63 Y25 F6000 ; go to first bed probe point and home Z
G30 ; home Z by probing the bed

; Uncomment the following lines to lift Z after probing
;G91 ; relative positioning
;G1 Z5 F100 ; lift Z relative to current position
;G90 ; absolute positioning

;deployprobe.g

M280 P0 S10 ; deploy BLTouch

;retractprobe.g

M280 P0 S90 ; retract BLTouch

@Phaedrux said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

Just to pour some more fuel onto the angry fire...

Here's a nice little low cost device that can add wifi to an ethernet only device.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00TQEX8BO/

Where is this 'angry fire' you speak of ? Thanks for the link on the extender. (You don't think a Duet is all THAT important to me in the grand scheme of life do you? I sure hope not!)

There was a point in time where we could have a civilized discussion (on a discussion forum of all places) and listen/respect differing opinions...Only now did I notice the ability to anonymously downvote posts that don't agree with the herd mentality. That seems like a great way for cowards too inept to, agree to disagree, to bully others. It's sad really.

Anyway...I'd still love to have a Wifi 3, but until then I'll roll with the existing offerings.

Since nobody answered it - @dc42 What's the forecast look like for the Wifi 2 in terms of availability, End of life announcement etc ? Or do you see the Wifi 2 as a staple in the Duet product line for the next several (<5?) years?

Buhu Its too expensive.

There is a cheaper option.

But I want the expensive one

... lol + facepalm + thumb down ...

The Duet3 mini (aka 5LC) is the next version of the Duet 2 Maestro, the low end, (relatively) low cost offering. So complaining about it not being as fully featured as the Duet 3 6HC or Duet 2 Wifi/Ethernet makes about as much sense as the rest of of the nonsense you're complaining about as it has a completely different customer base.

I guess I'll leave this thread by dropping the bomb that the CAN bus (currently) in use on both the Duet 3 6HC and mini is CAN-FD, so odds are it won't work with servos (but you'd know that if you bothered to search the forum)

Please - Facepalm yourself a few more times. In fact, keep doing it until I tell you to stop. You didn't comprehend the 'issue'. Go read it again as you seem to have only read the parts that suit you. If you had read my post up-thread, you would get it:

@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

1. Faster processor speed (300Mhz vs 120MHz)
2. Higher current onboard drivers for NEMA23/34 motors
3. More GPIO
   etc, etc...

Why settle for less?

I'm fully aware that the Mini 5 is wireless and has less I/O and processor speed than the Duet 3. I don't want it. It doesn't have enough I/O and the onboard drivers don't have enough amps for the motors I want to run. I have already stated this up-thread.

Furthermore - to get what I want in the latest form - it's twice the cost. Somehow me pointing that out is now whining? What do you think that the price is going to come down because I pointed out a simple observation? The price is what it is - doesn't mean I have to like it - AND it doesn't give you carte blanche to be a douche. Take it down a notch.

@oliof said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

if you don't waste the RAM chips, you can still get an RPi4 for 35$.

Thanks for that. Looks like a 2GB Pi4 is $35ish - I'd get the 8GB one because more is "more better" as they say

@Veti said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

you are complaining that the duet 3 with features that not everyone needs is to expensive, yet for you the mini 5 wifi does not have enought features for you.

take your pick really.

My pick would be a Wifi 3...which would be the natural progression from the Wifi 2. To use the analogy again: If you bought an XYZ brand laptop in 2020 for $400 - and then wanted to get another one in 2021 that was supposed to be 'updated' - EXCEPT it doesn't come with wifi anymore - you have to buy a 3rd party add on to get it - oh and it's total cost is now $800 - would you buy it? Chances are the answer would be no.

@deckingman said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

@BDubs I'll just add that the faster processor on gen 3 is actually just a number. It doesn't gain you anything. Until very recently, the maximum step pulse frequency was actually a LOT slower using RRF 3 firmware which is what you have to use with Gen 3, than it is on the older gen 2. I'm still waiting for a stable version of RRF3 to verify if the step pulse frequency is now as good as the older gen 2 product.

I assume that you've also checked out the list of firmware limitations which apply to gen 3 products but which do not apply to gen 2?

Unless you need the higher current driver's or want to run more than 12 steppers, then gen 2 remains the better choice by far (and it gives you the WiFi option without the need to add another layer of complexity and cost in the form of an SBC).

That's just my opinion of course, but I've had every version of Duet products from the earliest 06 boards to the "latest and greatest".

Thanks for that - processor, or rather pulse rate, was the original yard stick when choosing the Duet. Not the same logic as most who are in dreamworld about speed...more like being able to run say 10:1 mechanical reduction and set the driver to full stepping to mitigate the hysteresis associated with microstepping (and torque loss on top of it) - but that's crazy talk because few can ever fathom what I just wrote and the reason behind it.

I'd be interested to know if RRF3 is on par with RRF2 in terms of max pulse rate, too. I'm config'd with RRF3 right now...but may go back to RRF2 after reading what you wrote.

@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:

imho again , the main advantage of the 3rd gen board is not the drivers or the cpu . its the CAN bus .
i hope in the future there will be a possibility to connect the duet3 to industrial servo drivers , maybe device net servos also .

Yes...CANBus connectivity is nice. We'll finally be able to use those servos we hoarded off of Ebay that we swore took S&D years ago (or was that just me?)