Where's the Duet Wifi 3?
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I found using a little travel access point like the GL.inet AR-300 brings wifi to the ethernet only devices (like the duet 0.6 board on the Ormerod i am still working on ... although that's currently running a duet3 mini), with very little hassle.
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@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
I used the NRF24 as an example...not getting caught up in the technical minutia - I don't think it's outside the realm of reasonable expectation to desire a Duet Wifi 3. Why doesn't the Duet 3 use similar wifi hardware as the RPi? (I say this redundantly...with partial wishful thinking)
Lots of reasons.
- The parts used by the Raspberry Pi are not used in an off-the-shelf module, so it would require doing some pretty complicated RF design
- Using off the shelf/already certified modules like the ESP or Raspberry Pi simplifies regulatory requirements (you can't just design your own radio transmitter/receiver and sell it)
I'm not sure I understand the difference between a "NRF24 style" module/board and a RPi, why the former is acceptable and the latter isn't. SD card images already exist for a RaspberryPi/Duet3 setup.
Or, as has been suggested in this thread, you can just use a ethernet to wifi bridge. ~$20, and no "sudo-ing".
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i also hate rpi and other types of toy computers .
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
i read duet 3 documentation and it seems it can run in stand alone mode ,connected via Ethernet port .
so its like duet 2 ethernet i guess.
i dont think the rpi is doing any movement calculaions or anything related . rpi is used for UI and plug-ins only. -
@hackinistrator correct. An the Pi isn't the only SBC you can use. And you can use it standalone like an ethernet, and if you want to add wifi there are wifi to ethernet bridge adapters you can get that work well. And if they fail you don't have to desolder a component to replace it. Plus the adapter is likely to support 5ghz networks or whatever future wifi standard that comes along. It's alot easier to change along the way. Ethernet is a good solid default connection. There are options all around.
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@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
pretty sure i just watched a Jeff Gerling video showing statistics from Raspberry Pi Trading that almost half of the 35 million Pi's sold, were sold to industry clients.
but this does seem to be the thread for venting so maybe i should take my facts elsewhere.
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Wifi options duly noted...
I think rj45 to wifi is a cludge...not quite as elegant as the wifi2 arrangement. I picture a beautifully well thought out control box, and then there's this 'thing' that doesn't belong you have to do something with.
5GHz isn't the end all be all over 2.4 - for instance, 5Ghz might be faster if you are close to the access point, but 2.4 has a much longer range.
Question: is the Beaglebone green or black compatible with the Duet 3?
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@bearer said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
if the board is meant for the industry or professionals - they dont use those toy computers also.
pretty sure i just watched a Jeff Gerling video showing statistics from Raspberry Pi Trading that almost half of the 35 million Pi's sold, were sold to industry clients.
but this does seem to be the thread for venting so maybe i should take my facts elsewhere.
I'll take the brunt of the complaining comment. I only bought several Duets and peripherals so as a paying customer not 100% satisfied with the upgrade path, I'm entitled to my opinion. God forbid anyone should think differently from the herd. Seems to be a theme in 2020... just go along with the herd... hey NOPE!
Please list the number of commercial or industrial motion controllers that use raspberry pi computers on them. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but a Smoothieboard is not commercial and not anywhere near industrial.
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@bearer
Indeed those small SBCs, like the PI are far from "toys" and are widely used in many fields.
My car has over 100 very small computers with far less capability than a PI.
Frederick
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@fcwilt I'm sure there are...BUT how many controllers you are likely to see sold on a commercial or industrial CNC machine use a RPi? The answer is zero.
On a 'hobby' machine, anything goes and that's where you see RPi's and Arduino based hardware. Why? The answer ALWAYS is because they are cheap to buy & no other reason.
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interesting thread, was thinking about the same thing a few days ago.
I have 2 duet 2 wifi's and I really like those boards, while @Veti and @bearer have valid points concerning the Rpi, there is one factor that must be taken into account here and that is cost, not everyone wants to shell out 200€ for a Duet 3 (and the Rpi isn't free either!).
I would love to see a new HW version of the Duet 2 wifi, maybe with a faster CPU and better wifi (ESP32 + external antenna ? ) -
@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
@fcwilt I'm sure there are...BUT how many controllers you are likely to see sold on a commercial or industrial CNC machine use a RPi? The answer is zero.
On a 'hobby' machine, anything goes and that's where you see RPi's and Arduino based hardware. Why? The answer ALWAYS is because they are cheap to buy & no other reason.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
Some 35 plus years in the industry and the biggest difference is form factor. Industrial controllers are often less capable than a PI.
I've used industrial automation controllers that were in the same price range as a PI. They tend to be more rugged and this has an associated cost.
Frederick
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I was wondering how many posts before we'd be comparing processing power of the Pi to the lunar module...
How much longer will the WiFi 2 will be produced before the end of life announcement is made? There are many printer manufacturers out there that use it currently.
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@whosrdaddy said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
interesting thread, was thinking about the same thing a few days ago.
I have 2 duet 2 wifi's and I really like those boards, while @Veti and @bearer have valid points concerning the Rpi, there is one factor that must be taken into account here and that is cost, not everyone wants to shell out 200€ for a Duet 3 (and the Rpi isn't free either!).
I would love to see a new HW version of the Duet 2 wifi, maybe with a faster CPU and better wifi (ESP32 + external antenna ? )Yeah...I was thinking the Pi was still like $35. Yikes...$89 for a RPi4 with 8 GB. That's over $325 USD for a Duet 3 with WiFi capability. Yeah ok you can do the rj45 to wifi thing for less but still. It's twice the cost of a WiFi 2.
It's significant because many of us have more than one printer.
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if you don't waste the RAM chips, you can still get an RPi4 for 35$. And for many 3d printers, the Duet 3 mini 5+ is a viable option, which is about 129$ IIRC and will come in a wifi version.
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@BDubs said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
That's over $325 USD for a Duet 3 with WiFi capability.
you are complaining that the duet 3 with features that not everyone needs is to expensive, yet for you the mini 5 wifi does not have enought features for you.
take your pick really.
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@BDubs I'll just add that the faster processor on gen 3 is actually just a number. It doesn't gain you anything. Until very recently, the maximum step pulse frequency was actually a LOT slower using RRF 3 firmware which is what you have to use with Gen 3, than it is on the older gen 2. I'm still waiting for a stable version of RRF3 to verify if the step pulse frequency is now as good as the older gen 2 product.
I assume that you've also checked out the list of firmware limitations which apply to gen 3 products but which do not apply to gen 2?
Unless you need the higher current driver's or want to run more than 12 steppers, then gen 2 remains the better choice by far (and it gives you the WiFi option without the need to add another layer of complexity and cost in the form of an SBC).
That's just my opinion of course, but I've had every version of Duet products from the earliest 06 boards to the "latest and greatest".
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imho again , the main advantage of the 3rd gen board is not the drivers or the cpu . its the CAN bus .
i hope in the future there will be a possibility to connect the duet3 to industrial servo drivers , maybe device net servos also . -
@oliof said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
if you don't waste the RAM chips, you can still get an RPi4 for 35$.
Thanks for that. Looks like a 2GB Pi4 is $35ish - I'd get the 8GB one because more is "more better" as they say
@Veti said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
you are complaining that the duet 3 with features that not everyone needs is to expensive, yet for you the mini 5 wifi does not have enought features for you.
take your pick really.
My pick would be a Wifi 3...which would be the natural progression from the Wifi 2. To use the analogy again: If you bought an XYZ brand laptop in 2020 for $400 - and then wanted to get another one in 2021 that was supposed to be 'updated' - EXCEPT it doesn't come with wifi anymore - you have to buy a 3rd party add on to get it - oh and it's total cost is now $800 - would you buy it? Chances are the answer would be no.
@deckingman said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
@BDubs I'll just add that the faster processor on gen 3 is actually just a number. It doesn't gain you anything. Until very recently, the maximum step pulse frequency was actually a LOT slower using RRF 3 firmware which is what you have to use with Gen 3, than it is on the older gen 2. I'm still waiting for a stable version of RRF3 to verify if the step pulse frequency is now as good as the older gen 2 product.
I assume that you've also checked out the list of firmware limitations which apply to gen 3 products but which do not apply to gen 2?
Unless you need the higher current driver's or want to run more than 12 steppers, then gen 2 remains the better choice by far (and it gives you the WiFi option without the need to add another layer of complexity and cost in the form of an SBC).
That's just my opinion of course, but I've had every version of Duet products from the earliest 06 boards to the "latest and greatest".
Thanks for that - processor, or rather pulse rate, was the original yard stick when choosing the Duet. Not the same logic as most who are in dreamworld about speed...more like being able to run say 10:1 mechanical reduction and set the driver to full stepping to mitigate the hysteresis associated with microstepping (and torque loss on top of it) - but that's crazy talk because few can ever fathom what I just wrote and the reason behind it.
I'd be interested to know if RRF3 is on par with RRF2 in terms of max pulse rate, too. I'm config'd with RRF3 right now...but may go back to RRF2 after reading what you wrote.
@hackinistrator said in Where's the Duet Wifi 3?:
imho again , the main advantage of the 3rd gen board is not the drivers or the cpu . its the CAN bus .
i hope in the future there will be a possibility to connect the duet3 to industrial servo drivers , maybe device net servos also .Yes...CANBus connectivity is nice. We'll finally be able to use those servos we hoarded off of Ebay that we swore took S&D years ago (or was that just me?)
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if you don't waste the RAM chips, you can still get an RPi4 for 35$.
Thanks for that. Looks like a 2GB Pi4 is $35ish - I'd get the 8GB one because more is "more better" as they sayBuhu Its too expensive.
There is a cheaper option.
But I want the expensive one
... lol + facepalm + thumb down ...
The Duet3 mini (aka 5LC) is the next version of the Duet 2 Maestro, the low end, (relatively) low cost offering. So complaining about it not being as fully featured as the Duet 3 6HC or Duet 2 Wifi/Ethernet makes about as much sense as the rest of of the nonsense you're complaining about as it has a completely different customer base.
I guess I'll leave this thread by dropping the bomb that the CAN bus (currently) in use on both the Duet 3 6HC and mini is CAN-FD, so odds are it won't work with servos (but you'd know that if you bothered to search the forum)
