Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!

deckingman

@splathammer Man, I don't know what to say (except that maybe if I had been unlucky enough to experience the problems you have that I'd likely feel the same way). Did the crash happen on layer change or at some random point in the file.?

If you can make the gcode file that were trying to print available, I'll give it a go on my machine if it helps. It would eliminate anything to do with slicer settings.

fcwilt

It's too bad you have having a unsatisfactory experience.

But given all the folks who don't have your problems and given the history of problems like this either your board is defective or you have done something wrong in wiring/configuration/etc.

Frederick

SplatHammer

@fcwilt I would love to hear how it can print the first layer perfectly (or at least part of it) and then do a kamikaze dive into the bed and it be my fault, either in configuration or wiring! It homes z perfectly and I have tried it a hundred times, lowers the bed when homes each axis, positions the bed correctly to print the first layer then does the suicide job after a random interval. by the way I am an engineer and also have a comp sci degree, worked in R&D (hardware) in the telecoms industry for years then worked as a consulting engineer and project manager on major telecoms installations from Australia to Turkey and Europe , started playing with computers in 1975 and am an electronics and robotics hobbyist so I am not exactly a tech newbie. The thing is everything works perfectly until x point in the print, usually part way through the first layer, then BANG. I have tried process of elimination and there is nothing left! Maybe the board is defective but as I desperately need to start using the printer I think I am going to go for something basic that works. I have been trying to get this going for 2 months in my spare time and am now out of time. My 2 ramps based small printers worked first time and have not had a single problem ever. this has NEVER worked.

SplatHammer

@deckingman It happens on the first layer. Sometimes it will print 1 section ok then crash when it moves to the nest, sometimes (like the last print) it prints more than one section then crashes. On the last print it had printed the base in 2 sections perfectly then when it went to fill the two tiny sections (far right of the second photo) by the cut outs it crashed. thats the thing, if it was any kind of configuration error, slicing error or as the other poster said wiring problem it would screw up at the beginning, it would NOT be able to print most of it perfectly and THEN bugger up.
i actually had my hand on the plug the whole time which is why I was able to stop it so soon. After a dozen consecutive crashes I have developed a system for limiting damage! Thats why the section above the mount is black carbon fiber but the mounts are all green pla, to minimise the damage (you can see the cf part didnt flex at all, you can image what happened the first time when it was all CF), that how many times this has happened. Thanks for the offer of trying the file,maybe I will take you up on it, but right now I am tired and feeling very despondent. i need another beer a few cigs and bed.
Thanks again for all the help.

fcwilt

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@fcwilt I would love to hear how it can print the first layer perfectly (or at least part of it) and then do a kamikaze dive into the bed and it be my fault, either in configuration or wiring!

I have no idea but applying Occam's Razor if there was a fundamental flaw in the board design or firmware then problems should be cropping up all over the place but they are not.

So that seems to leave a defective board or some problem with your specific machine.

Have you ever had a successful print with this setup? I ask because if the printer works ok from the DWC interface but won't print it could be some sort of slicer/printer issue.

I encountered a problem where a printer that had been working fine suddenly acted up. It turned out to be a slicer configuration problem - the slicer was configured for a Cartesian but the printer was a delta.

On my own machines every time there has been incorrect behavior on part of the machine it turns out to be a mistake that I made in wiring and/or configuration.

One of my machines is for testing new hardware, like hot ends, and as such the wiring and configuration changes often. I have made my share of mistakes resulting in things going wrong, often in loud and disturbing ways.

Frederick

streamliner

@SplatHammer I have thoroughly reviewed this thread I don't see how these problems are related to the firmware at all.

Can you please post your config.g and config-override.g file as they exist currently on your duet SD Card?

To be quite frank, your assumption that you have a unique hardware issue related to the design of the board is totally unfounded. Is it possible that your board itself is flawed? Possibly, but even this is rare.

Allow me to offer some further words of advice; if you are using expensive hardware like legitimate hi-win rails, Olson Ruby Nozzles, that sort of thing.... you should develop an appropriate testing procedure in order to minimize damage to that hardware... I would not possibly just 'give it a go' on a design that I am not already vastly familiar with in terms of how it functions with Duet. The Duet Developers and Community are an AMAZING source of assistance, but we all must take ownership to some degree for our own projects.

If you wouldn't mind posting your config.g and config-override.g, which @Danal suggested you do but was seemingly ignored. Please, let us help you by verifying the content of the files.

Thanks!

David@PrintM3D

dc42

@splathammer, does the Z axis on your printer move the nozzle (not the bed), and are you using Z-hop in your slicer configuration? If so...

I'm wondering whether the Z motor is sometimes moving in the wrong direction. So when Z hop commanded the nozzle up at the start of that travel move, it actually moved down; and the down again at the end of the travel move.

There are several reasons why a Z axis can move in the direction that gravity pulls it when it is commanded to move in the opposite direction:

Excessive Z acceleration configured, or excessive Z speed, and/or insufficient motor current. The motor produces insufficient torque to overcome both gravity and inertia, so it fails to follow the first steps. Then when the motor current is reversed, it is easier for the motor to move the other way with gravity to get in sync with the current again.
Only one phase of the motor being energised. This could be caused by a faulty cable or faulty driver. If it was permanent, you would know about it.

So I suggest:

reduce Z acceleration and max speed in your M201 and M203 commands
check that you have the Z motor current set to a sensible value for the Z motor(s)
in case the Z stepper driver isn't working properly, try connecting the Z motor to the E1 output instead. Use M584 Z4 E3 in config.g (before any M906 or M350 commands) to tell the firmware you have done this. If necessary, adjust the M569 P4 command to get Z moving in the correct direction.

Also it would help if we can see the GCode file that produced the problem with the first layer that you posted the picture of.

HTH David

SplatHammer

@dc42
I have solved the problem. It turned out not to be a faulty board, it was geometry. My mount was designed to be able to easily change hotends. Basically I had originally intended to use a MK10 hotend but later changed it for a V6. I should have made a change to the way the adapter plate was mounted but didnt, long and short was that if the hotend touched the surface at all it had a tendency for the mount to flex slightly and turn into a self-energising brake as the flex decreased the clearance causing it to jam against the surface. I checked the z axis reading on the web control before pulling the plug and saw it was still showing 0.6mm which eliminated the possibility of the bed moving unless it was a very subtle stealth bug. After recovering from the last crash i moved the head back to the same position *power off( and moved it forward and bingo insta jam. That explains why it only happened sometimes, if the travel was in the other direction it wouldnt jam as any flex would increase clearance.

I am currently baking a large humble pie : (

I would have had it sorted yesterday but we had a series of electrical storms and the power kept glitching so no printing or computer.

Sorry for all the hassle, but I had actually eliminated all the possibilities I could think of and since I knew there were no problems with the printer motor/movement/wiring wise it seemed a faulty board was the only remaining cause - obviously I was wrong.

Again sorry.

SplatHammer

@streamliner Thank for the offer but I worked out the problem, see my response to DC42. By the way I did have a test procedure when I powered it on the first time and was using a cheap hotend. It was only after it had passed all tests I let the hotend and bed get cosy!

SplatHammer

@fcwilt Solved it, see my reply to DC42 if you are curious as to what it was. thanks for the help.

SplatHammer

@deckingman I finally sorted it, turned out to be a bit of bad geometry in the print head mount, under certain circumstances it turned into a self-energising brake. see my reply to DC42 for more details. That sounds like the oven timer going off, my large humble pie must be finished baking, time to go eat it!

fcwilt

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@deckingman I finally sorted it, turned out to be a bit of bad geometry in the print head mount, under certain circumstances it turned into a self-energising brake. see my reply to DC42 for more details. That sounds like the oven timer going off, my large humble pie must be finished baking, time to go eat it!

Glad to hear you found the problem.

Occam's Razor comes through again.

I hope the pie is Apple - I love Apple pie.

Frederick

deckingman

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@deckingman I finally sorted it, turned out to be a bit of bad geometry in the print head mount, under certain circumstances it turned into a self-energising brake. see my reply to DC42 for more details. That sounds like the oven timer going off, my large humble pie must be finished baking, time to go eat it!

Man, I'm so pleased for you. And it's great that you are man enough to admit what the fault was. Most people would simply slink away and leave everyone else wondering what the hell the problem could have been.

Don't feel bad about it. We all make mistakes or overlook things (and that sleep deprivation thing is a killer).

SplatHammer

@fcwilt Its Apple Humble Pie ; )

fcwilt

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@fcwilt Its Apple Humble Pie ; )

Yum!!!

streamliner

@SplatHammer I am glad you worked that out! I have been chasing issues down on a product for some time now, and it's amazing how a seemingly complex problem can turn out to be one of the most simple. now, let's see what you can do with that board!! Curious: Do you have some pics available of your build? I would really like to see it.

I also want to underscore what Ian said -- thank you for acknowledging you had made a mistake. We all can get very hot headed/upset with 3d printing, it's just the nature of the beast.... what separates the men from the boys, per se, is owning up to your problems and carrying on without getting hung up on the details, insulting someone, etc... This is another reason why I love the Duet community... we tend to have a lot of people with these qualities, and that fosters even more to follow their lead.

I am preparing to do a similar build that I will be utilizing as a test bed; it will be modeled very similarly to the design E3D has been using to show their toolchanger... the idea will be: solid, high-quality build with easy access to all components for the purposes of testing out various configurations quickly.

Thanks,

David@M3D

SplatHammer

@streamliner Thanks and thanks for the help and advice.!
If you like I will post some pics when I have tidied it up a bit, still havent put the drag chain on the z axis.
If you are doing a build try checking out these guys if you are looking for linear rails http://www.cpc-europa.de they can probably also point you in the right direction for a UK (or wherever you are) distributer. Quality is excellent (they are not quite as silky smooth as the hiwins out of the box but they have broken in quickly and are now perfect. They are also pretty cheap, I was quoted €75 for 15mm HRC X 70cm in H precision and V0 preload. They are US made.
Also take a look at Primopal steppers (www.primopal.com) , they make every type of stepper and servo and drivers you can imagine and have ebay and aliexpress stores. Quality is fantastic and they are very helpful and will send you exactly what you want if one of their packs (they usually sell them in sets of 3-5 of the same type but will mix if you want). I caqn look for the links if you are interested.
Richard

SplatHammer

@streamliner
A couple more suppliers that might interest you:
These guys do a huge range of pulleys and belts. Belts are very high quality (thin and flexible), cut straight and no fibres on the edge.
https://powge.aliexpress.com/store/702327?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dQMdS5B
Huge range of bed heaters, will do custom really cheap (1500 watt - ok overkill but it heats to 60C in about 90 seconds and its mic8! - 50cm x 55cm $75) Quality is excellent, power cable is silicon sheathed. About 1/3 price of competitor.
Hope this helps!

SplatHammer

@splathammer Forgot the link for the heaters
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/709519?spm=2114.10010108.0.0.4e337493ueO7Ab

wilriker

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@deckingman I just got it to install! I suddenly noticed the error message said it couldnt find "DuetWiFiFirmware.bin" and the file is named Duet2CombinediFirmware.bin on github AND in the installation instructions. What a load of C··P!

I'm sorry to be a little late to the party.
First of all I am happy to see that you finally sorted out the printing problems.

Regarding the quoted part above: you need to upgrade to the latest iap4e.bin (can be found here). This is actually what performs the updates and the filename for the update file is hardcoded in there. This name was changed in 1.21 or 2.0 (not sure anymore) but it required also to update the updater.