Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!

deckingman

@splathammer I'm no expert on logging - DC42 is the man. I'd imagine that constantly writing to say the SD card would bugger things up, and there is also limited memory available to hold a log file. The only thing do know is that M122 reports a load of stuff which must have been logged. So running that command after things go pear shaped and reporting back what it shows would help people like DC42 diagnose what's happening.

For info - DC42 writes the firmware and his company is one half of Duet. Tony and Roland are the other half of Duet. The rest of us are all just users (plus a couple of distributors) trying to help each other.

Yes, sleep deprivation is a killer. Every Mole hill becomes a mountain.

streamliner

@deckingman Hey Ian, I hope you're well! I've had to go a bit dark on the forums and email lately due to our multiple impending launches. Just skimmed over this and I wanted to indicate one thing about logging. Logging, similar to the way most software systems/operating systems handle it, is done at prescribed 'levels' on the duet.

If you send an M111 you'll get a list of modules; On a Duet Maestro, this is what I am provided:

M111
Debugging enabled for modules: none(15)
Debugging disabled for modules: Platform(0) Network(1) Webserver(2) GCodes(3) Move(4) Heat(5) DDA(6) Roland(7) Scanner(8) PrintMonitor(9) Storage(10) PortControl(11) DuetExpansion(12) FilamentSensors(13) WiFi(14)

While enabling all of the modules will most certainly fill your sdcard quickly, my recent troubleshooting has really only utilized Platform and Move; and with intense testing my Log file is only a few kb in size. I personally will likely keep my 'Platform' logging set to on no matter what.

I don't suppose your schedule is open today for a bit of a chat, is it? I wanted to discuss some firmware retract stuff with you, as well as some recent slicing milestones.

Thanks,

David@M3D

MortarArt

This is a massive long shot, but I have seen a printer (not a Duet) execute a downwards move, when instructed in gcode to move slightly up. In fact it's even repeatable. My Mendel Max 3, using a RAMBO will do the following:

Home all routine:

Home X
Home Y
Move Z up 10
Move XY to center of bed
Move Z down until probe reports
Move Z up 1

... any intervening commands are irrelevant, unless Z shifts up or down.

Manual 'move Z up' less than 9 will result in a downward movement.

For example, Manual 'move z up 1' will result in moving Z down 8 ... a crash of about 6mm. Which isn't fun.

deckingman

@streamliner said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

..............

I don't suppose your schedule is open today for a bit of a chat, is it? I wanted to discuss some firmware retract stuff with you, as well as some recent slicing milestones.

Thanks,

David@M3D

I'm hardly ever in a position where I can just drop everything and have a chat but you can always email me. Of course, I can only discuss what works (or doesn't work) with a 5 colour Diamond mixing hot end. It may or may not read across to the quad.

SplatHammer

@deckingman Just tried to update the firmware. Note the use of the word "TRIED". It detected I had uploaded the combined firmware file, asked if I wanted to install it then said it couldnt find it. Tried it multiple times, tried putting "-2.01" after the name and it said it couldnt rename it. Tried to do the upload all at once install variation and it instantly upgraded the web control without asking. Took out the sd card, deleted the firmware then tried again, same crap about not being able to find the file. So it detected the file had been uploaded, knew what it was but says it cant find it, wow impressive!
I am not going to try one of the "fallback" installation methods, I am going to try printing a scaled down version of my last print attempt and see what happens.
I did check the sd card and its ok.
I belong to the local pistol shooting club and if i have many more problems with this thing it is going to make a very nice if rather expensive target ; )

fcwilt

@splathammer

What version were you updating from and to?

Certain combos require specific procedures.

Aside from those few special cases I have found updating to be reliable and that is on all four of my printers.

Frederick

SplatHammer

@deckingman I just got it to install! I suddenly noticed the error message said it couldnt find "DuetWiFiFirmware.bin" and the file is named Duet2CombinediFirmware.bin on github AND in the installation instructions. What a load of C··P!

SplatHammer

@fcwilt Just got it to install, the error message I got listed a different name than the name of the file you download from github. I renamed it to the name in the error message and it installed and is running. It was 1.9 to 2.01
The download is Duet2CombinedFirmware.bin but it has to be renamed to DuetWiFiFirmware.bin
Would be nice if they included that in the ······· instructions!

deckingman

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@deckingman I just got it to install! I suddenly noticed the error message said it couldnt find "DuetWiFiFirmware.bin" and the file is named Duet2CombinediFirmware.bin on github AND in the installation instructions. What a load of C··P!

Hi. Sorry I've been busy all day otherwise I would have stepped in earlier and saved you some grief. I see you've got it sorted and from now on, you'll be able to use the combined firmware without any problems. It changed around 1.21. It is documented here and in the release notes https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Installing_and_Updating_Firmware#Section_Upgrading_a_Duet_WiFi_or_Ethernet_to_firmware_1_21_or_later_from_1_20_or_earlier.

I've been caught out myself before when upgrading firmware and I've now learned to always read the release notes which you can find here. https://github.com/dc42/RepRapFirmware/blob/dev/WHATS_NEW.md

Suggest you bookmark that link and refer to it whenever you upgrade the firmware.

I'll save you some time with the next thing you are going to run into which is that you can't jog or move axes until they are homed, and when you try you'll get an error message "insufficient axes homed". It's in the release notes and was introduced as a user request. There are a couple of ways around it. The easiest IMO is to add M564 H0 to config.g which will restore the old behaviour. If not and if you try to home X or Y and those homing macros have a Z move in them, you'll need to add S2 to those Z moves.

It is all in the release notes.

Cheers

fcwilt

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@fcwilt Just got it to install, the error message I got listed a different name than the name of the file you download from github. I renamed it to the name in the error message and it installed and is running. It was 1.9 to 2.01
The download is Duet2CombinedFirmware.bin but it has to be renamed to DuetWiFiFirmware.bin
Would be nice if they included that in the ······· instructions!

Glad to hear you got it working.

As you see that was one of the combos that needed special handling as mentioned in Duet doc section on firmware upgrading.

A problem I faced as well.

Frederick

SplatHammer

@deckingman I have just tried to print another item - a 1/2 scale version (resliced and with an new version of Slic3r) and it has just done the same thing - it hit the top right corner, went to move to the next position) and rammed the hotend into the bed and dragged it along. this thing is a piece of non consumer grade , pre-alpha buggy crap and I have had enough. I am going to send the piece of excrement back and demand a refund. They are lucky I dont sue for a replacement hotend and nozzles, I would if it wasnt for the fact that for setup purposes I used cheap chinese copies and hadnt used the real E3D ones I have.
Here are some pics of the whole show.

Thank you so much for all your help, you have been incredibly kind and generous with your time. Hopefully we will meet again another forum on a happier thread!

SplatHammer

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

I

By the way, the first pic was from before all the upgrades, the other 2 are form this print. The report showed no anomalies.

SplatHammer

@dc42 I have upgraded all software and firmware, checked SD card, re-calibrated everything and just tried to print a newly sliced (with a new version of Slic3r) and had exactly the same crash I have had so many times before. I will be contacting you for a refund, returning this board and replacing it with something that doesn't repeatedly damage my very expensive printer.

deckingman

@splathammer Man, I don't know what to say (except that maybe if I had been unlucky enough to experience the problems you have that I'd likely feel the same way). Did the crash happen on layer change or at some random point in the file.?

If you can make the gcode file that were trying to print available, I'll give it a go on my machine if it helps. It would eliminate anything to do with slicer settings.

fcwilt

It's too bad you have having a unsatisfactory experience.

But given all the folks who don't have your problems and given the history of problems like this either your board is defective or you have done something wrong in wiring/configuration/etc.

Frederick

SplatHammer

@fcwilt I would love to hear how it can print the first layer perfectly (or at least part of it) and then do a kamikaze dive into the bed and it be my fault, either in configuration or wiring! It homes z perfectly and I have tried it a hundred times, lowers the bed when homes each axis, positions the bed correctly to print the first layer then does the suicide job after a random interval. by the way I am an engineer and also have a comp sci degree, worked in R&D (hardware) in the telecoms industry for years then worked as a consulting engineer and project manager on major telecoms installations from Australia to Turkey and Europe , started playing with computers in 1975 and am an electronics and robotics hobbyist so I am not exactly a tech newbie. The thing is everything works perfectly until x point in the print, usually part way through the first layer, then BANG. I have tried process of elimination and there is nothing left! Maybe the board is defective but as I desperately need to start using the printer I think I am going to go for something basic that works. I have been trying to get this going for 2 months in my spare time and am now out of time. My 2 ramps based small printers worked first time and have not had a single problem ever. this has NEVER worked.

SplatHammer

@deckingman It happens on the first layer. Sometimes it will print 1 section ok then crash when it moves to the nest, sometimes (like the last print) it prints more than one section then crashes. On the last print it had printed the base in 2 sections perfectly then when it went to fill the two tiny sections (far right of the second photo) by the cut outs it crashed. thats the thing, if it was any kind of configuration error, slicing error or as the other poster said wiring problem it would screw up at the beginning, it would NOT be able to print most of it perfectly and THEN bugger up.
i actually had my hand on the plug the whole time which is why I was able to stop it so soon. After a dozen consecutive crashes I have developed a system for limiting damage! Thats why the section above the mount is black carbon fiber but the mounts are all green pla, to minimise the damage (you can see the cf part didnt flex at all, you can image what happened the first time when it was all CF), that how many times this has happened. Thanks for the offer of trying the file,maybe I will take you up on it, but right now I am tired and feeling very despondent. i need another beer a few cigs and bed.
Thanks again for all the help.

fcwilt

@splathammer said in Duet Wifi keeps wrecking my printer, not happy!:

@fcwilt I would love to hear how it can print the first layer perfectly (or at least part of it) and then do a kamikaze dive into the bed and it be my fault, either in configuration or wiring!

I have no idea but applying Occam's Razor if there was a fundamental flaw in the board design or firmware then problems should be cropping up all over the place but they are not.

So that seems to leave a defective board or some problem with your specific machine.

Have you ever had a successful print with this setup? I ask because if the printer works ok from the DWC interface but won't print it could be some sort of slicer/printer issue.

I encountered a problem where a printer that had been working fine suddenly acted up. It turned out to be a slicer configuration problem - the slicer was configured for a Cartesian but the printer was a delta.

On my own machines every time there has been incorrect behavior on part of the machine it turns out to be a mistake that I made in wiring and/or configuration.

One of my machines is for testing new hardware, like hot ends, and as such the wiring and configuration changes often. I have made my share of mistakes resulting in things going wrong, often in loud and disturbing ways.

Frederick

streamliner

@SplatHammer I have thoroughly reviewed this thread I don't see how these problems are related to the firmware at all.

Can you please post your config.g and config-override.g file as they exist currently on your duet SD Card?

To be quite frank, your assumption that you have a unique hardware issue related to the design of the board is totally unfounded. Is it possible that your board itself is flawed? Possibly, but even this is rare.

Allow me to offer some further words of advice; if you are using expensive hardware like legitimate hi-win rails, Olson Ruby Nozzles, that sort of thing.... you should develop an appropriate testing procedure in order to minimize damage to that hardware... I would not possibly just 'give it a go' on a design that I am not already vastly familiar with in terms of how it functions with Duet. The Duet Developers and Community are an AMAZING source of assistance, but we all must take ownership to some degree for our own projects.

If you wouldn't mind posting your config.g and config-override.g, which @Danal suggested you do but was seemingly ignored. Please, let us help you by verifying the content of the files.

Thanks!

David@PrintM3D

dc42

@splathammer, does the Z axis on your printer move the nozzle (not the bed), and are you using Z-hop in your slicer configuration? If so...

I'm wondering whether the Z motor is sometimes moving in the wrong direction. So when Z hop commanded the nozzle up at the start of that travel move, it actually moved down; and the down again at the end of the travel move.

There are several reasons why a Z axis can move in the direction that gravity pulls it when it is commanded to move in the opposite direction:

Excessive Z acceleration configured, or excessive Z speed, and/or insufficient motor current. The motor produces insufficient torque to overcome both gravity and inertia, so it fails to follow the first steps. Then when the motor current is reversed, it is easier for the motor to move the other way with gravity to get in sync with the current again.
Only one phase of the motor being energised. This could be caused by a faulty cable or faulty driver. If it was permanent, you would know about it.

So I suggest:

reduce Z acceleration and max speed in your M201 and M203 commands
check that you have the Z motor current set to a sensible value for the Z motor(s)
in case the Z stepper driver isn't working properly, try connecting the Z motor to the E1 output instead. Use M584 Z4 E3 in config.g (before any M906 or M350 commands) to tell the firmware you have done this. If necessary, adjust the M569 P4 command to get Z moving in the correct direction.

Also it would help if we can see the GCode file that produced the problem with the first layer that you posted the picture of.

HTH David