Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.

[elmoret]

@notepad How about Fysetc patenting the work of others? How’s that factor in to them being a “fully functional board manufacturer”?

[Notepad]

@elmoret I haven't heard about, but do you have a link because I want to get up to date. Patent stealing is a nasty game to play.

[oliof]

@notepad see here https://twitter.com/LDOMOTORSJASON/status/1524842345685913601 for one example, there also is a list of trademarks they registered in China at https://www.psych0h3ad.tech/entry/3Dprinter/trademarkandpatent/fystec (translation makes this legible), including "DUETWIFI" (@T3P3Tony not sure if you ever saw this).

note: "LDO Motors Jason" is a competitor (or a victim of FYSETCs more shady tactics, depending who you ask), but he's not the only source reporting this. I know of at least one European project that has spent considerable amounts of effort recouping their trademark registration.

[dc42]

@notepad said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

Its kind of sad to say, but FYSETC make a much nicer touch screen. They have integrated the breakout board into their screens, and overall has made the PCB footprint smaller.

I guess you don't realise that we (Duet3D) did this first, with the PanelDue 5i and 7i. The Fysetc PanelDues are near-copies of these.

You do loose the speaker for this, however for that size reduction

The genuine PanelDue 5i and 7i have the piezo sounder.

[Rushmere3D]

@oliof Important to read the reply from FYSETC on this and take into account that the Voron team, don't talk about it, nor want it talked about which suggests to me they are ok with it.

My only comment on this is that for 3d printing to become a much wider spread thing it needs affordability, companies like FYSETC, mellow, bigtreetech bring that CHOICE to the market. I do and will continue to buy their products alongside original brands.

[oliof]

@rushmere3d It's completely fine for the Voron team not to talk about it -- but they also had a prior partnership with FYSETC (the Spider was a design marketed "for Voron"), so lots of variables to keep in mind. I know most projects/companies don't talk about this in the open, but some of the backchannel chatter seems to indicate that "not talking about it in the open" doesn't necessarily mean they're happy or fine with it. I am not involved with Voron at all, so I am not commenting on their stance (-:

Like you, I am a big fan of choice (and I have a number of products by manufacturers you name), but choice really only is possible on a level playing field. I'm also not judging people on how much weight they give to this whole endeavor -- I just made a choice for myself.

Besides this topic, we've had some reports of higher error rate, and worse performance, of FYSETC products that are spun off of the Duet designs (completely in line with the license by the way and I support that), so I'll keep those factors in mind as well.

[zapta]

@dc42 said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

I guess you don't realise that we (Duet3D) did this first, with the PanelDue 5i and 7i. The Fysetc PanelDues are near-copies of these.

I believe that he is referring to the smaller footprint of the FYSTEC's screens, without the extra PCB area on the side. They could still install at the back a low profile buzzer like 458-AST1640MACTRQTR-ND but didn't.

China is following Japan's and Korea's path, low quality cloning, better quality cloning, modified cloning, and then own original designs such as their new 3D printer controllers.

BTW, FYSTEC didn't open source it's panel due variants.

[Notepad]

@zapta Exactly this. not heaving the PCB breakout board as extra space just gives a lot more flexibility on design choices.

@Rushmere3D makes an incredibly valid point. Affordability is a massive part of 3d printing nowadays. If you can get new users into the Duet ecosystem via clone brands, it still means there is a much higher chance they will buy official products later down the line. Its a win win.

.

Also I'm not entirely sure why the review is getting downvoted on something that is purely an unbiased review. Its obvious Duet products will be better than clones. But that doesn't stop the fact that some one asked for their opinions on FYSETC products in an unbiased, non confrontational manner, and that can only be done without taking a stance.
Also please remember, Duet hardware is open source including licence agreements. There is also an argument to be made that elitism on an open source design goes against the whole concept of open source.
FYSETC are completely within their rights to make their own version of the hardware.

[elmoret]

@notepad said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

@zapta Exactly this. not heaving the PCB breakout board as extra space just gives a lot more flexibility on design choices.

There's no breakout board on the 5i/7i that Duet3D invented.

@notepad said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

FYSETC are completely within their rights to make their own version of the hardware.

Sure, if they follow the license, which they don't. And patenting the work of others is simply not acceptable and should preclude them from being an option to anyone with morals/ethics. Behavior like that should not be accepted in 3D printing, or society as a whole.

[Notepad]

@elmoret said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

Sure, if they follow the license, which they don't

I think you're onto something quite important. Could you please clarify how they do not follow the licence. If they don't follow it, then it would actually be a fitting conclusion to the opinion on FYSETC as the answer just becomes "don't buy them because they are in breach of the licence agreement"

[dc42]

@zapta fair enough, I haven't see a Fysetc PanelDue equivalent.

[elmoret]

@notepad said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

@elmoret said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

Sure, if they follow the license, which they don't

I think you're onto something quite important. Could you please clarify how they do not follow the licence. If they don't follow it, then it would actually be a fitting conclusion to the opinion on FYSETC as the answer just becomes "don't buy them because they are in breach of the licence agreement"

I'm not sure if you're being serious or not, as what you're asking for is very apparent with even a small effort.

Duet3D license:

https://github.com/Duet3D/Duet3-Mainboard-6XD/blob/master/LICENSE

Which states:

Any reproductions or modifications of the hardware must contain the following attribution on the PCB silkscreen and packaging:
 "Based on the design by Duet3D, see www.duet3d.com for the original product. This reproduction/modification is not endorsed or supported in any way by Duet3D".

Their boards do not state this. In fact, they state things like "Designed by Duet3D.com, Assembled in China" which gives the strong, false impression is is a genuine product!

[zapta]

@elmoret said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

they state things like "Designed by Duet3D.com, Assembled in China"

That's misleading indeed, though on their web site they refer to all their duets as 'clones'.

The writing on the board also says that that made changes to the layout but they don't open source their own work despite including the open source logo on the boards..

[Screenshots taken from Fystec's web site].

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". Duet3d has the ability, Fystec has the need. I find myself prefering more and more vendors from the free world.

[zapta]

Try to get technical answers like this one from a PRC cloner. I wouldn't be surprised if they are even not aware of these technical considerations.

https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/26758/32-4v-input-instead-of-32v/2?_=1660483857467

[Notepad]

@elmoret

Their boards do not state this. In fact, they state things like "Designed by Duet3D.com, Assembled in China" which gives the strong, false impression is is a genuine product!

See that's the thing, I'm holding one in my hands right now, and it follows the wording exactly stated in the licence agreement

Based on what I can see with my "small effort" it is quite apparent that they are following the agreement quite closely. I cant say this for all the different companies which clone the boards, but FYSETC seems to be playing ball.
This is actually why I asked if you could clarify, because I was not sure if there was anything else relating to the licence which was not apparent.

[zBeeble]

@notepad said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

Based on what I can see with my "small effort" it is quite apparent that they are following the agreement quite closely. I cant say this for all the different companies which clone the boards, but FYSETC seems to be playing ball.
This is actually why I asked if you could clarify, because I was not sure if there was anything else relating to the licence which was not apparent.

I bought a paneldue 7i from a wholesaler that didn't say it was FYSETC --- but to be fair, many other items did say that. The same silkscreen text is on my 7i.

[elmoret]

@notepad Did you bother reading the post above yours, where there is a clear example of Fysetc NOT following the requirement?

Same story on their clone of the 1LC:

It seems you're not interested in having this conversation in good faith...

[zBeeble]

@elmoret said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

@notepad Did you bother reading the post above yours, where there is a clear example of Fysetc NOT following the requirement?

Same story on their clone of the 1LC:

It seems you're not interested in having this conversation in good faith...

So... a point of confusion (rather than of bad faith ... again, politely, please) is that, at the very least, my board also has the markings that are ambiguous... so boards can have both.

[zapta]

@notepad the examples above are of a 6HC. You dispute it using an older WI FI 2.

[SputnikOC3d]

@zapta said in Opinions on "FYSETC" ... politely, please.:

@notepad the examples above are of a 6HC. You dispute it using an older WI FI 2.

trying to have a honest discussion of the morality of these clone whores and the users hellbent on saving $35 at the cost of the originating ecosystem is futile. They will justify their savings with 500 differing variants of logic... all while knowing they are screwing the people who brought this whole thing to the forefront. Its sad.

Whats funny tho is listening to how theyve justified the cost savings in their minds with "How theyre actually improving the whole thing" with "competition" and "options" - utterly laughable.