Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems

jay_s_uk

@sozkan except its not working correctly as you are losing steps

sozkan

@jay_s_uk said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan except its not working correctly as you are losing steps

Yes, the settings you recommended are generating noisy step signals on the board. Seems steps were messed on the board before the driver. Hower the present settings I set and worked surprisingly with smooth and precise with vertical wall shell spiral printings except for the problematic results on the solid or far detailed printings.

I think it should not lose a step on the driver. Because these motors are designed to work failsafe. Because it has an encoder and incases of step loose or overdrive, closed-loop system alarm, and stops already.

I am thinking to upgrade the new version duet board if I have to.

jay_s_uk

@sozkan but if the pulse width etc are wrong then the driver wont step as desired and you'll get the outcome you're getting.
I suggest you revisit the correct settings

alankilian

@sozkan

It's a little difficult to check without a data sheet for the motor driver you are using, but I'll try to explain.

The signals from the DUet to the motor driver have to be the right length or the motor driver will not recognize that the Duet is asking it to take a step.

Imagine that the motor driver needed a STEP signal to be one-second long to know it needs to take a step. (I know that's a long time, but it's just for imagination.)

If you send a STEP signal that is only one-half-second long, the motor driver will not know it needs to take a step, and your part will be printed incorrectly even though your motor driver is closed-loop and cannot miss a step.

So, you need to get the "Taa:bb:cc:dd" timing parameters correct in the M569 command.

Do you have a data sheet for the motor driver that shows the timing values?

engikeneer

@sozkan I think @jay_s_uk is saying that you had two errors:
1 - you were setting step pulses for the wrong drivers. So you were running on the RRF default ones which just about worked at low speeds, but the step timing etc is not suitable for fast infil sections etc.
2 - the step timings you are now setting are not correct for your motors so its missing even more steps.

It doesn't matter how perfect your closed loop control is, if the drivers can't interpret the step pulses coming from the Duet, it will not keep up and so will move fewer steps (or maybe even in the wrong direction)

sozkan

@jay_s_uk said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan but if the pulse width etc are wrong then the driver wont step as desired and you'll get the outcome you're getting.
I suggest you revisit the correct settings

I know it should be one correct setting. However, even the correct settings as suggested already seem not working at this setup. I had no remedy other than to return to the present worked settings. If it was pulse width incompatibility, it should not be worked on both already.

jay_s_uk

@sozkan i am sorry but I can't help you any further then.
hopefully someone else can...

alankilian

@sozkan

I found a data sheet with the timing values on Page #12.

It says 2.5:2.5:6:6 should work, but let's try slower than that so that if your drive current through the motor controller's internal LED is a bit low it will still work.

Can you tell us how you have the Duet wired to the Motor controller please?

Try this and see if it helps:

; Drives

M569 P5 S1 R1 T10:10:10:10  ; Extruder drive 0 goes Forward
M569 P6 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; X:A drive 1 goes Forward
M569 P7 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Y:B drive 2 goes Forward
M569 P8 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Z:C physical drive 3 goes Forward

Make some slow moves and see if the motors sound good and move the correct distance.

Then try some faster moves. At some speed, things will start to fail and we can help adjust to get better numbers.

You need to get slow moves sounding nice and moving the correct distance first.

sozkan

@jay_s_uk said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan i am sorry but I can't help you any further then.
hopefully someone else can...

Thank you very much for your effort and kind suggestion, I really appreciate it.

I will first try with different acceleration. I also find on some other sources, they called ghosting. Delays due to individual acceleration may cause deflection. You know as delta, some of the axes have to run very fast even for a few millimeters compared to another axis to catch coordinates. So I try to decrease acceleration to see the difference. I will get a newer version Duet board and check with suggested settings aswell.

jay_s_uk

@sozkan if you want to use the duet 3 boards you'll also need 1XD external boards as theres no way to connect external drivers to them
I would also suggest that that would make no difference to your current issue

sozkan

@alankilian said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan

I found a data sheet with the timing values on Page #12.

It says 2.5:2.5:6:6 should work, but let's try slower than that so that if your drive current through the motor controller's internal LED is a bit low it will still work.

Can you tell us how you have the Duet wired to the Motor controller please?

Try this and see if it helps:
; Drives

M569 P5 S1 R1 T10:10:10:10  ; Extruder drive 0 goes Forward
M569 P6 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; X:A drive 1 goes Forward
M569 P7 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Y:B drive 2 goes Forward
M569 P8 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Z:C physical drive 3 goes Forward
Make some slow moves and see if the motors sound good and move the correct distance.

Then try some faster moves. At some speed, things will start to fail and we can help adjust to get better numbers.

You need to get slow moves sounding nice and moving the correct distance first.

I will try the T values for sure.

I set the connection based on the suggestion here in this thread: https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/18918/giant-delta-printer-slow-homing-issue/37

However, it is difficult to give a picture of the present stage due to the enclosure.

sozkan

@alankilian said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan

I found a data sheet with the timing values on Page #12.

It says 2.5:2.5:6:6 should work, but let's try slower than that so that if your drive current through the motor controller's internal LED is a bit low it will still work.

Can you tell us how you have the Duet wired to the Motor controller please?

Try this and see if it helps:
; Drives

M569 P5 S1 R1 T10:10:10:10  ; Extruder drive 0 goes Forward
M569 P6 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; X:A drive 1 goes Forward
M569 P7 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Y:B drive 2 goes Forward
M569 P8 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Z:C physical drive 3 goes Forward
Make some slow moves and see if the motors sound good and move the correct distance.

Then try some faster moves. At some speed, things will start to fail and we can help adjust to get better numbers.

You need to get slow moves sounding nice and moving the correct distance first.

I really appreciate your help. Motor Sounds even better and smooth stronger also precise on moves. Now I am testing the printing results. Let see how it works. I can later share the video.

All my best to all of you. I could not achieve this without your help.

The only problem is the extruder drive which is provided by the dyze design a simple stepper motor. It seems not moving.

sozkan

@sozkan By the way I have reduced the acceleration value from 1000 to 250. It was before the Pulse width changes. It seems was also helped to correct moves. But I am not very sure.

sozkan

@jay_s_uk said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan if you want to use the duet 3 boards you'll also need 1XD external boards as theres no way to connect external drivers to them
I would also suggest that that would make no difference to your current issue

Thank you for insisting on correct settings. By changing M569 P values like you said and T values like alankillian mentioned it worked perfectly.

But only extruder I kept P1 and T values the dyze design recommended T values. Because P5 it did not move at all.

Present values

M569 P1 S1 R1 T3:3:5:0      ; Extruder drive 0 goes Forward
;M569 P5 S1 R1 T3:3:5:0   ; Extruder drive 0 goes Forward ; extruder not running in this setup. 
M569 P6 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; X:A drive 1 goes Forward
M569 P7 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Y:B drive 2 goes Forward
M569 P8 S1 R0 T10:10:10:10  ; Z:C physical drive 3 goes Forward

jay_s_uk

@sozkan ok. what do you have for your extruder then? can you post the full info?

sozkan

@jay_s_uk said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan ok. what do you have for your extruder then? can you post the full info?

Dyze Design Extruder

Technical details

Firmware Details

jay_s_uk

@sozkan you'll probably need to set that a bit higher too
can you provide the model number of the driver they provide?

dc42

@sozkan how have you connected the expansion breakout board to the closed loop drivers? It might be that you may have the incorrect step polarity.

sozkan

@dc42 said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan how have you connected the expansion breakout board to the closed loop drivers? It might be that you may have the incorrect step polarity.

Actually now closed-loop drivers are fine and perfectly worked the first time with all of your support. Only the last one the extruder open-loop stepper motor different one having issues.

By the way connection of the closed-loop motor was mentioned before in this thread:
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/18918/giant-delta-printer-slow-homing-issue/35

sozkan

@jay_s_uk said in Closed Loop Motors SYNC problems:

@sozkan you'll probably need to set that a bit higher too
can you provide the model number of the driver they provide?

I think the extruder driver Dyze design provide is :
http://www.szruitech.com/Detail Page R60.html
R60 two-phase stepper driver.

it is Chinese so I relay on Dyze design documentations.