New heater tuning algorithm

Good morning. I've jut finished tuning the Heater 1 at 230°C with M303 H1 S230. This is my first print after using the new calibration algorithm....I'm experiencing a lot of oscillation around the set point as you can see:

Even arouns 235°C (first layer) and around 230°C (second layer) as well.....I made the autotuning with tha fan on for the first 2 stages and turned it off for the third stage. Oscillationa are sometimes more than 1°C above and belows

Never seen oscillations like those with the older algorithm

As you can see the issue goes on for all the print:

Cattura 2.JPG

I've been able to tune only the Heater 1 because the tuning for the bed looked to go in loop...After 40 minutes I've turned it off...as you can see the graph for the bed is very stable

What's happening?

Uh, I was forgetting....Beta 4.1

wilriker

@the_dragonlord said in New heater tuning algorithm:

I made the autotuning with tha fan on for the first 2 stages and turned it off for the third stage.

The tuning process will automatically control the fan. It seems you confused it by manually changing fan speed. Please tune again and don't touch the fan.

I've been able to tune only the Heater 1 because the tuning for the bed looked to go in loop...After 40 minutes I've turned it off...as you can see the graph for the bed is very stable

The new tuning algorithm takes up to 30 heat-cool-cycles and can take very long on large heated beds. So what you describe sounds pretty normal in the first place.

@wilriker said in New heater tuning algorithm:

@the_dragonlord said in New heater tuning algorithm:

I made the autotuning with tha fan on for the first 2 stages and turned it off for the third stage.

The tuning process will automatically control the fan. It seems you confused it by manually changing fan speed. Please tune again and don't touch the fan.

I've been able to tune only the Heater 1 because the tuning for the bed looked to go in loop...After 40 minutes I've turned it off...as you can see the graph for the bed is very stable

The new tuning algorithm takes up to 30 heat-cool-cycles and can take very long on large heated beds. So what you describe sounds pretty normal in the first place.

the first attempt I've made the tuning didn't control the fan at all neither in the beginning neither in the end... maybe there's an option to control it?

jay_s_uk

@the_dragonlord you need to tune as a tool rather than a heater.
So M303 T0 S200

@jay_s_uk said in New heater tuning algorithm:

@the_dragonlord you need to tune as a tool rather than a heater.
So M303 T0 S200

uh ok ok... thanks! What's the tool number for the bed?

jay_s_uk

@the_dragonlord for the bed you tune as normal as a heater

@jay_s_uk said in New heater tuning algorithm:

@the_dragonlord for the bed you tune as normal as a heater

excellent, thanks!

This post is deleted!

CCS86

I'm a little confused on the part cooling fan aspects of this new tuning cycle.

I ran through it once and see "Auto tune starting phase 3, fan off"

I tried running again with the fan manually turned on, but that same message is shown. I thought that the cycle automatically turned on the part cooling fan, but it doesn't seem to do this for me.

jay_s_uk

@CCS86 you need to tune as a tool not as a heater to get the fans activated.
M303 T0 S200 and so on.
Phase 3 is first done with the fan off and then with the fan on.

CCS86

@jay_s_uk said in New heater tuning algorithm:

@CCS86 you need to tune as a tool not as a heater to get the fans activated.
M303 T0 S200 and so on.
Phase 3 is first done with the fan off and then with the fan on.

Sweet, thank you much!

dc42

@the_dragonlord said in New heater tuning algorithm:

Good morning. I've jut finished tuning the Heater 1 at 230°C with M303 H1 S230. This is my first print after using the new calibration algorithm....I'm experiencing a lot of oscillation around the set point as you can see:

You are the first person to report that with the new algorithm.

My suggestions are:

Tune the heater again, but as a tool instead of as a heater. This will take account of the effect of the cooling fan.
Make sure that the system ios using the M307 parameters that resulted form tuning.
If you still get oscillations after doing that, increase the dead time (M307 D parameter). Try an increase of 30%, and increase further of needed to stop the oscillations.

smoki3

I just want to give some feedback:

The new heater tuning works fine for me and the temperatures are very stable.
At the beginning I had one "heater fault" warning as soon the fan turned on. I noticed that it make a huge difference if you do the heater tuning "in the air" or do it near to the bed (or any other surface). If you do it near the bed the air from the part cooling fan gets reflected and cools also the hotend.

After doing the heater tuning again the everything works great for my. The temperatures looks more stable than before.

dc42

Thanks @smoki3 , we will add that advice to the documentation.

smoki3

@dc42 said in New heater tuning algorithm:

Thanks @smoki3 , we will add that advice to the documentation.

So looks like my feedback came to early.

I did some prints today and I get heater faults again:

Error: Heater 3 fault: temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 3.0°C/sec

This are my PID Tunings for this heater:

M307 H3 R2.727 C226.900:132.500D5.60 S1.00 V24.2 B0

This only happens if I start heating from room temperature. If its already heated to around 70C it works fine

NikA

alright, I just registered to participate

I also have a "bigger" heatbed/plate with a 1400W heater.
Since I switched to the new firmware, the PID tuning result is different.
For the heatbed I always get the warning that others get, too: heater behaviour is not consistent during tuning.
Before I wrote this post, I updated to the new beta 4.1, since I read above that dc42 changed the algorithm again for bigger beds, but the results are nearly the same for me.

Oh, the fan doesn't start while tuning. Since I switched to the new fw I have 2 fans listed: tool fan and the one I named "berdair", which actually is the air pump I have installed. The tool fan does not exist. I can't find the gcode in config.g that creates the "tool fan" though.

Under "Fans" I have 2 lines:
M950 F0 C"out7" Q18000
M106 C"BerdAir" P0 S0 L0.0 X0.7 H-1 B0.1

Under "Tools" I removed the F0 from the M563 command without any effect.
So it's just
M563 P0 S"Volcano" D0 H1 ;F0

jay_s_uk

@NikA I had to go back to pre beta 3.2 to tune my heated bed as it would fail after 30 cycles and then fault in heating.
I suggest doing the same and making a note of the results you get so you can go back to them in case you decide to try the heater algorithm when RC1 gets released.

For the fan coming on for the tool, did you tune as H1 or T0?

You should keep F0 in your tool definition as that ties that fan as the Tool fan.
The tool fan isn't created by your config but is the part fan tied to the current active tool. If tool 1 was activated, then the tool fan would become the part fan for that tool

smoki3

I run into more problems now:

Warning: Auto tune of heater 2 failed due to bad curve fit (R=2.038, C=0.004:0.004, D=7.9)

What does this mean?

3dML

@dc42 Would it be at all possible to monitor ambient temp and use it to adjust pid tune on automatically? I have 25C difference in ambient temp depending on the filament I am using.

dc42

@3dML said in New heater tuning algorithm:

@dc42 Would it be at all possible to monitor ambient temp and use it to adjust pid tune on automatically? I have 25C difference in ambient temp depending on the filament I am using.

I guess so, if you have a sensor to monitor chamber temperature.