Not connecting

Corexy

I'm really at a loss now, and could use some advice.

I cannot find the Duet via USB on my computer, despite having done it before.

I've got 2 boards here, a V1.0 and a V1.01. I bought them both back in the day, and recently fitted the newer version to my printer. Both are showing 3.3/5.5v lights on, and the DIAG led is also on permanently as I hit the erase/reset buttons. Both played up in exactly the same way, not connecting to wifi and not starting up correctly, which led me to where I am now. There is no tone when plugging in the USB cable, and no sign of the board in device manager/bossa/yat.

I've checked my USB port/cable by transferring pictures with my phone. All worked well with a tone on plug in/out.

Bossa and Yat are not detecting a port at all, yet my other devices plug in and work fine. I've done the firmware flash with Bossa before and it went straight forward.

If there's any known issues with the earlier boards, it would be better to know and replace it than to keep chasing my arse in circles over this one. I don't see any further steps that could be taken in the instructions other than to seen it back to the supplier...is there anything I can do before that?

I'd really appreciate some help here, and if a new board is the best way to go, so be it.

Phaedrux

@Corexy try a usb hub

Corexy

@Phaedrux said in Not connecting:

@Corexy try a usb hub

Mate while I appreciate your advice I just don't know what you mean by that. Won't that just plug into the USB port on my computer anyway?

While I very much like the features of the Duet wifi, it's hardly been plug and play from day one, and I've got money out for 2 of these boards for one printer, and while they've been good when working they've certainly had minds of their own.

I would appreciate it if one of the staff could answer my questions and give clearer step by step instructions. It's always been confusing but at least they used to try more to help.

I appreciate the help I've been given, but these wiki's aren't enough...are there any staff out there who can help in plain english??

Phaedrux

@Corexy said in Not connecting:

Won't that just plug into the USB port on my computer anyway?

Yes. We've just had another person post a very similar problem that was resolved by using a usb hub. I don't pretend to know why, I'm just providing a suggestion to try.

Corexy

@Phaedrux said in Not connecting:

@Corexy said in Not connecting:

Won't that just plug into the USB port on my computer anyway?

Yes. We've just had another person post a very similar problem that was resolved by using a usb hub. I don't pretend to know why, I'm just providing a suggestion to try.

Of course I appreciate your help, and am not getting snippy. I'm just a little frustrated that there's little/no comment from staff, and we're all out here second guessing.

As it goes I've got a USB hub here...no difference other than it didn't connect at all. On my lead that works, one board makes the connect/disconnect noise over and over and doesn't seem to be responding to YAT commands. The other just won't connect at all.

Maybe the staff could answer me.... is there a known problem with the earlier boards, and if so will I have less trouble if I just buy a new one? It would be nice if I could just get a reply on that one.

dc42

Do you have a PanelDue or other device drawing power from the 5V rail? Some USB ports can't provide enough power for that. A powered USB hub should though.
Does your Duet WiFi have an Erase button or an Erase jumper? If it has the jumper, try powering up and connecting to USB with that jumper installed. That worked yesterday for someone else. If that gets you the Bossa port, then load Bossa, browse to the file, check the required 3 boxes, then remove the Erase jumper before you press Write.

If it has the Erase button, then connect to the PC via USB, press and hold Erase for at least a second, then press Reset briefly, and see if that makes the port appear.

Corexy

@dc42 said in Not connecting:

Do you have a PanelDue or other device drawing power from the 5V rail? Some USB ports can't provide enough power for that. A powered USB hub should though.

Does your Duet WiFi have an Erase button or an Erase jumper? If it has the jumper, try powering up and connecting to USB with that jumper installed. That worked yesterday for someone else. If that gets you the Bossa port, then load Bossa, browse to the file, check the required 3 boxes, then remove the Erase jumper before you press Write.

If it has the Erase button, then connect to the PC via USB, press and hold Erase for at least a second, then press Reset briefly, and see if that makes the port appear.

Thank you David,

I have 2 boards, the V1.0 and V1.01. Both have the button not jumper. The 1.0 worked for over 2 years before playing up, and I replaced it with the 1.01 which played up within 3 months.

The 1.0 has actually reflashed via Bossa, but it won't stay connected or talk to YAT or Pronterface (it repeatedly connects/disconnects to the USB). The 1.01 won't connect to Bossa even...nothing, has the DIAG light on continuously..

Again, I'm not too badly fussed about buying a new board if it's got all the bugs out and will plug up to my existing setup without too much trouble. It's not like I'm asking for warranty, it's been a couple of years.

I also don't mind sending these old boards to you for checking if that's of interest.

To be honest I just want my printer back up, as I use it a lot.

**EDIT

Sorry, I'm doing the connection with the paneldue fully unplugged and I've tested the USB port/lead by transferring pics from my phone to the computer. I did disable all the USB power saving settings in the computer as well.

I'm not sure I've got a powered USB hub, but I could power the one that did load bossa via a phone charger and see if the wifi connects?

Corexy

Bit further along...

Cleared all my com ports and reinstalled my drivers.

One of the boards is showing up as a bossa port, the other is completely non responsive.

With the board that is connecting, the firmware flash fails straight after I click write and it shuts down Bossa. I tried it with Sam-Ba as well, and it just stops at 1%.

I have downloaded this firmware: Duet2CombinedFirmware.bin

It's the latest, and I've got it extracted and saved on my desktop, name exactly as above. Is there any name change or anything like that required?

I've found another post and mention of bypassing the USB port with a custom cable...surely that's a bit drastic??

I'm really looking for help here chaps. Extensive searching has shown this is a rare enough problem but has happened before. I'm thinking of trying a powered usb hub next, but I'm clutching at straws. There's something at play here that might be a little unusual, I could really use some help.

**PS. I'd really like those couple of people who marked me down over this post to come on, name yourself and explain the reason. I'm actually not very confrontational, and I went back through the post to see what happened to offend. At very worst I might have sounded a bit terse, but it's not like I went nuts. Maybe a look at the dates will show how long this has gone on for.

droftarts

@Corexy The majority of replies on this thread are from myself, @Phaedrux and @dc42, and we're all 'official' Duet3D support. We've discussed your issue off-list too, to try and resolve what might be causing this, but are equally baffled. I did say back on the 25th Jan that it might be time to look for faults on the boards.

For the unresponsive v1.01 board, it's possibly a processor failure (possibly due to over voltage or shorting), but could be a shorted/broken USB port, stuck/shorted reset switch, along with erased firmware (DIAG light on). With everything disconnected, and SD card removed, plug in USB solely and hold your finger on the main processor. Does it get hot? You should know after 30 seconds if it does. If not, inspect the board for shorts, particularly around the reset switch and on the legs of the main processor. @dc42 suggested looking at the 'spills' (yes, solder joints) on the back of the SD card. Post good quality, hi-res images of the back and front of the board; forum users are particularly keen-eyed! I'd probably consider replacing the USB port if the processor doesn't get hot, and/or reflow joints around the SD card holder and WiFi module, but that may make no difference.

On the somewhat working v1.0 board, it maybe a floating pin (poorly soldered/dry joint) or faulty/failing component, but could also be a USB socket issue. Does that processor heat up? Most of the above could apply to that, too.

Are these boards more unreliable than the current v1.04 boards? Probably not. There is more protection built into current boards (fuses and a few minor component changes), but nothing major; see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Hardware_Overview#Section_PCB_revision_history for changes. I still run one of the prototype Duet WiFi v0.10 with white PCB on my main printer! There has been the odd manufacturing hiccup, but mainly that's failing voltage regulators or poor hand soldering of through-hole components, and gets picked up pretty quickly.

Could your environment be responsible for failures? Possibly. I think you said in a previous thread about lighting strikes, and your use of surge protectors; it's possible voltage spikes are getting through and killing the board. Dirt and/or metal particles contaminating the board can cause shorts. I've seen dead insects cause shorts, too, though usually on higher voltage! Short circuits through poor mounting are a fairly common failure as well.

If you're not in a position to test the boards further, or make repairs, maybe someone in the community can help. See https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/13875/community-repairs where a number of forum members have offered to repair boards, depending on your location.

Hope that helps.

Ian

A Former User

@droftarts said in Not connecting:

we're all 'official' Duet3D support

to be fair, its not immediately obvious; but I wouldn't say it justifies dismissing the community and suggesting a known problem with the boards when the changelog is readily available and nothing to suggest usb issues when surges from lightening strikes seem to be by far the most likely culprit.

droftarts

@bearer said in Not connecting:

@droftarts said in Not connecting:

we're all 'official' Duet3D support

to be fair, its not immediately obvious

Hmm, yes, that's fair. While @dc42 is a colossus that bestrides the Duet community, dispensing wisdom in a sage-like and 24/7/365 (24/7/366 this leap-year) fashion, known to all as the 'Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer', @Phaedrux and myself are merely his unruly minions, who work part time. I don't overtly announce myself as 'official support', if only because I'm not as available as dc42, and don't want people raging at me for the periods of time I'm not available. If there's a better way to do this, I'm happy to try it out.

Ian

Corexy

@droftarts said in Not connecting:

@Corexy The majority of replies on this thread are from myself, @Phaedrux and @dc42, and we're all 'official' Duet3D support. We've discussed your issue off-list too, to try and resolve what might be causing this, but are equally baffled. I did say back on the 25th Jan that it might be time to look for faults on the boards.

For the unresponsive v1.01 board, it's possibly a processor failure (possibly due to over voltage or shorting), but could be a shorted/broken USB port, stuck/shorted reset switch, along with erased firmware (DIAG light on). With everything disconnected, and SD card removed, plug in USB solely and hold your finger on the main processor. Does it get hot? You should know after 30 seconds if it does. If not, inspect the board for shorts, particularly around the reset switch and on the legs of the main processor. @dc42 suggested looking at the 'spills' (yes, solder joints) on the back of the SD card. Post good quality, hi-res images of the back and front of the board; forum users are particularly keen-eyed! I'd probably consider replacing the USB port if the processor doesn't get hot, and/or reflow joints around the SD card holder and WiFi module, but that may make no difference.

On the somewhat working v1.0 board, it maybe a floating pin (poorly soldered/dry joint) or faulty/failing component, but could also be a USB socket issue. Does that processor heat up? Most of the above could apply to that, too.

Are these boards more unreliable than the current v1.04 boards? Probably not. There is more protection built into current boards (fuses and a few minor component changes), but nothing major; see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Hardware_Overview#Section_PCB_revision_history for changes. I still run one of the prototype Duet WiFi v0.10 with white PCB on my main printer! There has been the odd manufacturing hiccup, but mainly that's failing voltage regulators or poor hand soldering of through-hole components, and gets picked up pretty quickly.

Could your environment be responsible for failures? Possibly. I think you said in a previous thread about lighting strikes, and your use of surge protectors; it's possible voltage spikes are getting through and killing the board. Dirt and/or metal particles contaminating the board can cause shorts. I've seen dead insects cause shorts, too, though usually on higher voltage! Short circuits through poor mounting are a fairly common failure as well.

If you're not in a position to test the boards further, or make repairs, maybe someone in the community can help. See https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/13875/community-repairs where a number of forum members have offered to repair boards, depending on your location.

Hope that helps.

Ian

Thanks Ian,

Now that's all good info, and thanks very much for taking the time.

Yes, I do pay for my "summer bay" lifestyle with salt air and power surges. And yes there's a bunch of dead printers here of various brands, but it's usually the temp mosfets that go on other brands for some reason.

I'm off to bed now, but I'll carry on after work tomorrow and check the temps etc as you have recommended.

Thank you very much for that, and if they are buggered they certainly lasted longer than Zortrax boards, which were dead within months.

To be honest if I get new ones, I'll just send these back to you to have a look "for science".

Cheers again,

Corexy

@droftarts said in Not connecting:

@bearer said in Not connecting:

@droftarts said in Not connecting:

we're all 'official' Duet3D support

to be fair, its not immediately obvious

Hmm, yes, that's fair. While @dc42 is a colossus that bestrides the Duet community, dispensing wisdom in a sage-like and 24/7/365 (24/7/366 this leap-year) fashion, known to all as the 'Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer', @Phaedrux and myself are merely his unruly minions, who work part time. I don't overtly announce myself as 'official support', if only because I'm not as available as dc42, and don't want people raging at me for the periods of time I'm not available. If there's a better way to do this, I'm happy to try it out.

Ian

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're getting at?? I can't even tell if this is for me or one of the other posters?

I certainly haven't "dismissed the community", I'm here asking. I also haven't suggested a known problem, I just asked if there were any. DC42 had suggested he'd seen one issue before, and I just wanted to clear it up rather than chase my arse in circles over software.

I am a little frustrated, but I like to think I'm pretty patient and will get it.

I do have a large Liebert UPS, but the batteries are gone. Might pay to dust it off and try to run the printers off it again.

droftarts

@Corexy Sorry, my reply was for @bearer, didn't mean to imply you were raging! (You aren't, just frustrated.) He was just pointing out to me that it's not obvious that I and @Phaedrux are employed by Duet3D to provide support, so when you were asking for 'staff' to respond, it wasn't obvious to you that 'staff' HAD responded.

Also, I found this: https://superuser.com/questions/37245/how-to-prevent-corosion-damage-in-a-salt-air-environment

Ian

Corexy

@droftarts said in Not connecting:

@Corexy Sorry, my reply was for @bearer, didn't mean to imply you were raging! (You aren't, just frustrated.) He was just pointing out to me that it's not obvious that I and @Phaedrux are employed by Duet3D to provide support, so when you were asking for 'staff' to respond, it wasn't obvious to you that 'staff' HAD responded.

Also, I found this: https://superuser.com/questions/37245/how-to-prevent-corosion-damage-in-a-salt-air-environment

Ian

Actually, yes you are correct. I had no idea yourself and Phaedrux were staff. To be honest I thought I was being snubbed by staff, and just other product users were helping me, which did lead to my email. So it's good that we've identified that confusion. Maybe some kind of logo/sign below your avatar?

You beat me to the punch about the salt air...should I consider "conformal coating" and how would it affect heating?

droftarts

@Corexy said in Not connecting:

@droftarts said in Not connecting:
Maybe some kind of logo/sign below your avatar?

I was a bit nervous about saying I was 'official Duet3D support' when I first started last year. I'm more comfortable now, so perhaps I'll review it with the rest of the team, see if we can come up with something. There are some very experienced, unofficial, voices on the forum, though, who's input we greatly appreciate.

You beat me to the punch about the salt air...should I consider "conformal coating" and how would it affect heating?

No idea! However, if you're covering the top of the board, where most of the connections are, you'd probably be okay, as the heat from the drivers is sinked to the back of the board. Hopefully someone with more electronics experience could chime in.

Ian

deckingman

@droftarts I didn't know that @Phaedrux was "staff" either. I thought he was just a long time user like me but with much more time on his hands (and a better disposition/more patience than I have) Maybe you guys should have "Administrator" after your name like David has?

infiniteloop

@Corexy

I'd really like those couple of people who marked me down over this post to come on, name yourself and explain the reason.

I’m not sure if my down-voting came through, but I strongly dislike you call for „authorities“:

Maybe the staff could answer me....

This is a slap in the face of the contributors to this forum, many of them experts and specialists who know exactly what they are talking about.

As a side note: for the same reason, I dislike the idea to label staff members - it’s the quality of their postings which counts.

A Former User

What he said

(with the addition that I had already learned that Phaedrux was actually affiliated with Duet3d)

Phaedrux

@deckingman said in Not connecting:

@droftarts I didn't know that @Phaedrux was "staff" either. I thought he was just a long time user like me but with much more time on his hands (and a better disposition/more patience than I have) Maybe you guys should have "Administrator" after your name like David has?

"staff" may be putting too much weight behind it. Community liaison? Assistant to the regional manager? Would it have helped if the moderator tag was on? Labels can be a distraction. This community forum has a wealth of non-official knowledge, it would be a shame for good advice to be discounted simply because it isn't "official". Not saying that's happened here.

@Corexy sorry for the total off-topic diversion of your thread.