Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan
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Im using a mosquito hotend with the supplied 25x25x10 2 pin 24v Fan (3.64 CFM). This thing is so loud and violent it vibrates my entire printer. I get a headache just being in the same room. There is even a dedicated FAQ entry on the SliceEngineering web page stating that this fan is overpowered and to run it at 70% power for most applications. So I need to turn the power down to 70%, no big deal right??? This is a 2 pin fan and I don't expect to get much out of PWM but I went ahead and switched from an always on port to FAN1 on my Duet 2 wifi. So, S255 with just about any frequency I've tried results in the usual full blast, vibrate the screws out of my printer jet speed. Anything in the S200-S254 at 6-25Hz range gives me "something," but nothing usable. Anything else I've tried is either nothing, or faint clicks with no fan rotation.
I'm having 0 luck finding a 2510 fan with PWM capabilities and I'm wondering what my options are for getting this 24v fan to run smoothly at 70% capacity.
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@jwalbridge said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
Anything in the S200-S254 at 6-25Hz range gives me "something," but nothing usable.
what do you mean by that? the fan does not spin? did you try going lower than 500 ?
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@jwalbridge 6-25Hz is very low PWM for a "normal" 2 wire fan. Try the default PWM frequency of 250.
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@veti the fan would spin but would ramp up and down in speed and noise level. I tried all the frequencies I've seen people suggest around the forums. They all worked at S255 and did not work at anything lower than S255.
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@t3p3tony said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
@jwalbridge 6-25Hz is very low PWM for a "normal" 2 wire fan. Try the default PWM frequency of 250.
At 250Hz, fan will only work at S255. At S254 F250 it really struggles and erratically ramps up and down in speed. At S253 F250 and below (only for S, F250 is constant) I get no rotation or noise from the fan.
Closest I can get to a steady flow that isnt full blast is something like S254 F10.
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This is described by SliceEngineering as a being a "High quality 25 mm box fan with dual Japanese bearings."
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@jwalbridge said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
I'm having 0 luck finding a 2510 fan with PWM capabilities
You can just try other fans of same dimensions. My material cooling and hot ends fans are not specified as having PWM capabilities but work well with duet's 24V.
For the material fan for example, I am running 100% for PLA and 35% for PETG and it's very stable.
Edit: I did a parametric search on Digikey. Hard to find a 24V 25x25mm fan. Not a popular combination. You can also use a 5V or 12V fan with a 24V duet if you have a secondary supply. E.g. https://www.digikey.com/short/pm8c11
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Perhaps one of these would fit the bill?
https://www.mouser.com/Thermal-Management/Fans-Blowers/Fans/DC-Fans/_/N-dwatb?P=1y9c01s -
And you get a lot more options if you include 12v fans.
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@jwalbridge said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
There is even a dedicated FAQ entry on the SliceEngineering web page stating that this fan is overpowered and to run it at 70% power for most applications
@jwalbridge, I wonder, are the complains mostly from 24V users or also from 12V users? Considering the wider availability of 25x25 12V fans, I wonder if the fan problem is 'solved' for 12V users.
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@zapta I've got a couple different 2 pin 24V 2510 fans on order to try out. With my experience, all the fans on my 12v printers have been quieter than their 24v counterparts. These were all 30mm fans on E3DV6 hotends. I guess there just isn't much of a market for 25x25x10 at 24V.
@Phaedrux The mouser fans would probably fit, at the cost of a few MM on my X axis. Looks like they are 5V. Maybe I should just use a buck converter to open up my fan options.
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@jwalbridge said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
Maybe I should just use a buck converter to open up my fan options.
Might not be a bad idea. It's much harder to find decent 24v fans than it is 12v.
If you could make a larger 30mm fan fit somehow, this fan is an excellent option: https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/sunon-fans/MC30101V1-000U-A99/259-1550-ND/2757778
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@jwalbridge said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
Maybe I should just use a buck converter to open up my fan options.
You probably know it but just in case ;-), you can find here information how to connect a 12v fan to a 24v duet. The input of the buck converter should be connected to the 24V power supply, not to the the fan output of the duet.
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@jwalbridge said in Solutions for a non PWM (2 pin) 2510 24v Fan:
6-25Hz
i read that at khz.
have you actually tried 6-25khz?
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Hello. Have you founded a solution ? Because I've buyed a Mosquito and got the same problem.
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I've got a Mosquito with a 12 VDC fan and it works just fine.
I would be surprised that a 24 VDC unit would be that much different.
Frederick
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@noisettetbou I have a mosquito with a 24v fan and have the same issue. I’ve heard adding a capacitor across the positive and negative wires of the fan helps smooth the PWM so the fan can run at lower PWM values. I’ve seen recommendations of 22uf and 47uf capacitors. Are there any issues caused by doing this? Should I be concerned with inrush current?
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running 3x 25x25x10 gostime 24v fans on my smarteffector with e3d v6. during last weeks tried several things to calm it down. long story short:
- 25x25x8 ebm pabst 252 n/h (quiet expensive - 22EUR, absolutely quiet, 12v with buck-converter) don't deliver enough pressure to cool heatbreak enough (v6 fins mean a lot of static counter pressure - might be different with mosquito)
for better comparison:
- 2 gostimes at 24v for filament-cooling press 2-3mm deep holes into water surface (glass below hotend)
- 2 gostimes at 12v are much quieter and less turbulent, but only scratch the water surface
- 25x25 pabsts just scratch surface
- 40x40x10/20 noctua just scratch surface
my solution right now: got a cheap buck converter via amazon bringing my voltage down from 24 to 20v. decreases airflow to a just acceptable level while decreasing noise and vibrations quite a bit.
airflow is one thing. getting that lot of air through a tightening channel or along obstacles in the way requires air-pressure (the anti-pressure to overcome is a reason for vibrations and noise). axial-fans are not good in that regard. pressure increases with revs. the ebm pabsts turn with 9(N - absolutely quiet) to 12(H - less quiet) thousand rpms. the gostimes in comparison can do up to 24.000 rpm (quiet noisy - but lot of flow in comparison).
http://gdstime.com/product/?99_471.html
the gostimes - even on full speed - can run comparably quiet. high pitch like a turbine. but as soon as they blow against an obstacle that blocks their way, the sound changes from a steady, quiet, high-turning turbine to a vibrating rattler.
might at least to some new ideas.
