Fysetc pays to Duet3D and the dc42 fork of RepRap?

sychan

I saw that that Fysetc advertises donating a portion of the purchase price of their Duet Maestro clone back to the developers of the firmware and board:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Latest-Version-Cloned-Duet-2-Maestro-Advanced-32bit-Motherboard-For-3D-Printer-CNC-Machine/32947253015.html
"A portion of your purchase goes directly back to the developers of the Duet3D boards, and support for the development of RepRapFirmware (RRF), which has the longest legacy of any open 3D printer control board"

Is that true?

dc42

It's not true. Looks like they just copied the text from https://store.printm3d.com/products/duet-2-maestro?variant=12397460783182. We do receive a contribution in respect of Duet Maestro boards purchased from M3D.

sychan

That's too bad. The Fysetc clones seem to be of good quality, and I was considering them as an option if they contributed back to ongoing support and development. Thanks for making it clear how things really are.

fma

You can donate yourself to dev. team, if you purchase Fysetc board...

sychan

@fma Is there a donation Patreon or PayPal address? I looked around and didn't see one.

Phaedrux

Their prices are pretty close to just buying an official board. I really don't understand why someone would buy a clone that could burn their house down to save 20$.

mudcruzr

@phaedrux said in Fysetc pays to Duet3D and the dc42 fork of RepRap?:

Their prices are pretty close to just buying an official board. I really don't understand why someone would buy a clone that could burn their house down to save 20$.

It's not that close if you're in the UK...

Maestro is £89.90 + vat = £107.40 +P&P (£4.45)
Total £111.85

Fysetc board £64.39 delivered*

Difference £47.46 or approx. $60 - a bit more than $20!

*Assuming HMRC don't notice

Phaedrux

@mudcruzr I was going on Canadian prices on Amazon.ca versus spool3d.ca which is a canadian reseller.

I guess the questions is, is that extra $60 worth the continued development, maintenance, and support of RRF?

mudcruzr

@phaedrux My only answer to that is: I have two genuine Maestros at the full £111.85 each lol.

sychan

This is part of the price that is paid with open source - if you open source it, it is understood that people copy/improve what is there and it moves the field ahead, but you don't get to directly monetize your code. At the same time, the dc42 fork of RRF is deeply, deeply dependent on previous people who have open sourced their work, making it easier to have built the dc42 fork of RRF in the first place. And this branch of the firmware has been forked to support Smoothieboards, and I doubt that any of the manufacturers of Smoothie, SBase or SGen boards are sending any money back to pay for further RRF development.

The monetization model of open source is that you give away the code, and hope to make money on the support. So it makes a lot of sense to get a payment system in place for people who want to donate. Klipper has a Patreon donation setup, it would make sense for RRF to do the same

UnderDoneSushi

@sychan I'm with @Phaedrux ... You are just asking for it if you purchase a clone. "if you open source it, it is understood that people copy/improve what is there and it moves the field ahead" - They aren't improving anything. Buy the real deal and support the actual creator. You'll have more unknown problems that can't be solved because of their build quality.

Wyvern

The Duet isn't cheap and I can see where a clone may be tempting, but, If you are paying $100 already, just fork over the other $60 and get a genuine part that has been tried and tested.

I've been burnt on clones before, and an expensive printer that extrudes expensive material and can easily destroy it'self in a matter of seconds and can start on fire isn't something to cheap out on.

dc42

One thing we don't know about the clones is whether they use 2oz copper for the top and bottom of the PCB as we do, or whether they use the cheaper and more standard 1oz copper. If they are using 1oz then the stepper driver and MOSFET heat sinking won't be as good, and the bed heater maximum current should be de-rated.

Genuine Duets sold by Duet3D and our distributors come with a 6 month warranty and include a connector pack.

sychan

@dc42 It probably varies depending on the clone manufacturer. Not all of the Chinese manufacturers are in a race to the bottom - a friend of mine goes to China for Apple to handle hardware QA, and nobody seems to call Apple hardware cheap and shoddy. But then, when you want quality from Chinese sources, it isn't dirt cheap anymore, and many of the people buying stuff on AliExpress are just looking for the cheapest possible price, so they get rock bottom quality for rock bottom price.

My original question was more just idle curiousity about whether Fysetc was actually sending some money back to you guys.

The Duet WiFi is far too much hardware for my little Ender 3, a Duet Maestro is a better fit. Someone is coming out with a drop in replacement board on the Ender 3, which is basically a Smoothieboard with TMC2208s, 4 layer 2oz copper/layer PCB, properly spec'd connectors, etc... which will cost about the same as a Duet Maestro, so I've been looking at the Duet Maestro vs future Paquette Smoothieboard. The more basic decision for me is RRF vs Marlin and not Chinese clone vs authentic Duet, or Duet 2 Wifi vs Duet Maestro.

Marlin seems to have large pool of committers, big feature set and the predictably uneven quality, while the dc42 RRF seems to have a very small set of committers and less features, but a better reputation for quality. I still think it makes sense to have a way to collect donations to support ongoing development, and not depend solely on hardware sales.

Alishkus

@dc42 do you have patreon?
I had opportunity to compare both clone and original DUET Wifi boards
There are many many differences starting from components to assembly quality and even traces....
Clones are much much more likely to be shortened and burned.
Also there are missing many safety features, that original DUET board has, so I dont know if 20USD is worth burning your house :?

dc42

@sychan said in Fysetc pays to Duet3D and the dc42 fork of RepRap?:

Marlin seems to have large pool of committers, big feature set and the predictably uneven quality, while the dc42 RRF seems to have a very small set of committers and less features...

Are there any particular features of Marlin that you want, that RRF doesn't support?

Don't forget that RRF has some really major features that Marlin lacks: boot time/run time (instead of compile time) configuration, web interface, macros, flexible tool definition and management, additional axis support. Also, many features that Marlin has specific code to support can be implemented in RRF using macros and other standard features.

sychan

@dc42 I'm an unsophisticated hobbyist user and not focused on individual features, so much as general attributes:

Stability.
Usability - ABL using BLTouch, a good web GUI, good tools for monitoring printer status
Configurability - I had to edit header files and rebuild kernels in the 90's, but that's a 1990's workflow - hopefully it shouldn't need to be done very often in 2019
Safety - not interested in a long running print turning into a potential fire hazard due to poor thermal design on the controller board, shabby component specifications, or poor error handling in the software cascading into a catastrophic hardware failure.
Print speed and quality - I don't want processor speed and outdated algorithms to be the bottleneck in getting good prints at 100-150 mm/s print speeds.
Quiet - the Trinamic drivers seem to be the ticket

Dougal1957

@sychan and every one of those items you have listed are in RRF What features does Marlin have the RRF Doesn't?

A Former User

@sychan

you say apple products are not cheap and nasty, i disagree, they are some of the worst products on the planet, the only thing apple is good at is marketing and the sheeple lap it up.

if you disagree with me about apple providing terrible quality i suggest you look up a repair channel on youtube Louis Rossman

Go watch a few of his video's then come back and tell me that apple dont sell cr*p

apple are also proven to lie to their customers... all facts so please dont use apple as an example of quality...

A Former User

the real worm in the apple is planned obsolescence and the vendor lock-in that has a service department whose 1. priority is to sell you a new device.

anyways, back on topic; Fysetc clones are 1oz/35um copper top and bottom (or they were a while back), no idea about the other issues mentioned.