Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.
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@phaedrux
It's attached straight on the silicone heater from factory. -
I'm surprised it's taking longer to heat up in that case. Is there an air bulge or something keeping the thermistor out of contact with the heater itself? I'd be tempted to try with a different thermistor to try and rule that out, even if only temporarily.
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@Exerqtor
I have to ask the simple question because I didn’t see an answer for it yet. Do you have an M501 at the end of you config.g ?config-override.g:
M307 H0 B0 R0.902 C267.4 D3.56 S1.00 V12.5 ; Bed heater tuned for 80C with 230v 750w heaterAfter performing a reboot you can try sending an M307 H0 to verify the correct Param are set for the heated bed?
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You appear to be using the default PWM frequency, but with an SSR?
That is unlikely to work well, as the PWM will interact with the AC power frequency, which is all the SSR can switch at.
That could be causing the "stutter" as well.
Try setting the PWM frequency to eg. 5Hz or enabling bang-bang mode instead?
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@phaedrux said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
I'm surprised it's taking longer to heat up in that case. Is there an air bulge or something keeping the thermistor out of contact with the heater itself? I'd be tempted to try with a different thermistor to try and rule that out, even if only temporarily.
Well adjusting it the R value to 0.75 seemed to fix the issue. S it looks like it just werent able to heat up as fast as result of the tuning wanted it too.
I haven't got the feeling that it was/is an physical problem at all.@alex-cr said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
@Exerqtor
I have to ask the simple question because I didn’t see an answer for it yet. Do you have an M501 at the end of you config.g ?config-override.g:
M307 H0 B0 R0.902 C267.4 D3.56 S1.00 V12.5 ; Bed heater tuned for 80C with 230v 750w heaterAfter performing a reboot you can try sending an M307 H0 to verify the correct Param are set for the heated bed?
Yeah all that's ok, M501 is the secound last line (followed by T0) in the config.g, so it's applying the parameters correctly. It was just expecting it to heat up faster than what it actually was capable off.
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Adding a Q10 to your M950 for the bed might be a good idea
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This post is deleted! -
Sure I can add a Q to the M950, but what should i go for? 5,10 or 50?
Also i didn't see any mention of the need oe posible need for it when running a SSR to regulate mains voltage anywhere in the documentation
Or have I missed it somewhere? -
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@exerqtor said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
Sure I can add a Q to the M950, but what should i go for? 5,10 or 50?
No more than 10.
An AC SSR is normally "zero voltage switching" - at the start of each AC half cycle, it either switches on, or not. It does not change state during the half cycle.
That means you have 100 or 120 (for 50/60 Hz) on or off "timeslots" each second.
Running at or above the power frequency will give unpredictable results, more luck than anything if it works anywhere near smoothly.The control frequency needs to be low enough to give a reasonable range of control, different power levels, within each PWM cycle.
10Hz would give roughly 10% increments at 50Hz or 8% increments at 60Hz.5Hz would give nearer 5% / 4% increments, so slightly smoother control at the cost of fractionally slower response - but with a big heated bed that's not really an issue.
You could try both & see which gives best response. It won't hurt anything, just re-tune at each setting.
Save both tuning result lines in case you want to change in the future. -
@phaedrux said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
@exerqtor https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_a_bed_heater#Section_RepRapFirmware_3_x
Haven't looked at that specific page in ages! Would have been really nice with a "mentioned in/ referanced in" ish thing at the bottom of each gcode specific dozuki page that links to every other documents that contain or mention that specific code. Kinda like the way wikipedia is settup with referance links in the bottom (yeah i know that's alot of work to setup, but if it was a quick'n easy interface for setting up referance links for logged in users i'm pretty sure it would get done relatively quickly).
BUT, now i know
@rjenkinsgb said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
@exerqtor said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
Sure I can add a Q to the M950, but what should i go for? 5,10 or 50?
No more than 10.
An AC SSR is normally "zero voltage switching" - at the start of each AC half cycle, it either switches on, or not. It does not change state during the half cycle.
That means you have 100 or 120 (for 50/60 Hz) on or off "timeslots" each second.
Running at or above the power frequency will give unpredictable results, more luck than anything if it works anywhere near smoothly.The control frequency needs to be low enough to give a reasonable range of control, different power levels, within each PWM cycle.
10Hz would give roughly 10% increments at 50Hz or 8% increments at 60Hz.5Hz would give nearer 5% / 4% increments, so slightly smoother control at the cost of fractionally slower response - but with a big heated bed that's not really an issue.
You could try both & see which gives best response. It won't hurt anything, just re-tune at each setting.
Save both tuning result lines in case you want to change in the future.Yeah it's an original Omron "Zero-crossing" SSR I'm using, and were on 230V/50Hz here in Norway so I'll try with 5Hz in the M950 and then do a new tune.
Again, thanks for the help and enlightenment guys
Edit:
Ran a new tuning now with the PWM set to 5Hz, and ended with "M307 H0 B0 R0.955 C228.2 D3.40 S1.00 V12.5", an even higher heating rate.
Waiting for it to settle down to room temp before I try running a preheat with those parameters to see how it behaves. -
Didn't have time to test yesterday, so i just tried a heatup and :
Error: Heater 0 fault: at 64.9°C temperature is rising at 0.4°C/sec, well below the expected 0.7°C/secSo i get the feeling the tuning outputs a higher than realistic heating rate to be honest.
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@arnold_r_clark
I'm also seeing similar behavior since updating to 3.4.0b6 (from 3.3.0)
My bed heater faults very often while initially warming up. And I can also clear the fault and continue heating, but very annoying.
Re-running PID tuning did not improve the situation.
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Hi,
Try to use the half of the computed R value from the PID Tuning, This is how it works with my printer
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/25321/bed-heater-fault-3-4-b5
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@pfn There are quite a few fixes post beta6: https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/commits/3.4-dev
Some of these may impact the problem you are seeing...
https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/commit/37b4e02726993763b477181b6aa918089e2210b4
https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/commit/1e0e6c99252dee6aa20194f212aca3be6e68415a -
@gloomyandy thanks for digging! looks like known issues that will be resolved in the next beta/rc
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Well there you go, just have to adjust the heating rate until b7 / RC1 sees day then
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@gloomyandy Thanks for the info.
I thought that my Nevermore carbon recirculation filter with fans was responisble for the heater errors.
Looking forward to the next beta release then
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@gixxerfast Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the above changes will fix the problem, just that some things have been changed! Will need to be tested with the next release I guess?
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@gloomyandy said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:
@gixxerfast Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the above changes will fix the problem, just that some things have been changed! Will need to be tested with the next release I guess?
@dc42 Guess this is something you could either confirm or deny?
