Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms

o_lampe

@gunrak said in Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms:

Sensor is mounted right before direct drive Hemera extruder via PTFE tube.

Is the sensor in horizontal position then? As far as I understand, the steelball should be above the filament path and drop down by gravity. Then the sensor has to be in vertical position.

gunrak

Yes it is mounted in horisontal position. I am not sure what do you mean by steelball. Inside the sensor there is idler bearing which is pushed by spring. I don't think that gravity would help much in this case.

o_lampe

@gunrak
OK, I confused it with the Finda-probe. Sorry.

gunrak

No problem.
There is one more thing that slipped through my mind. Even if cable is short between sensor and toolboard, Steeper motor and steeper motor cables are quite close, maybe I should try to use shielded cable?
Later today I will be in my workshop and crimp shielded cable, maybe there is some interference from stepper and that could help.

dc42

The measured sensitivity started off looking sensible, but increased to -240 to +395% over a few tens of minutes. Here are some possible reasons:

Filament slippage, as you suspect.
Severe interference pickup by the cable. Run M122 at the end of the print and look at the filament monitor error counts. That will indicate whether interference is a problem.
We saw a small number of instances during inspection of the magnet not being held securely on the shaft, leaving it free to rotate on the shaft. So check that the magnet is secure.
It could possibly be that a part of your print uses the extruder in a way that confuses the firmware. If that's the case then it should be consistent if you repeat the print.

gunrak

@dc42 Thanks for quick replay.

I will make shielded cable and try to route it away from stepper cable. I will check the errors after my print finishes.
I will check the magnet.

o_lampe

@dc42
Maybe it's not the right place to discuss it here, but a optical mouse sensor reading the surface of a rough idler roller would have a much higher resolution than a magnet&hall combo. And the rough surface of the roller avoids slipping, too.

Just my 2 Cent

gunrak

@dc42

print finished. Could you point out where exactly should I look for filament monitor error counts?
Here is M122:

M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 3 MB6HC version 3.2.2 running on Duet 3 MB6HC v1.01 or later (SBC mode)
Board ID: 08DJM-956BA-NA3TJ-6J9DA-3SN6S-9AAUV
Used output buffers: 5 of 40 (25 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 149788
Dynamic ram: 63524 of which 200 recycled
Never used RAM 145320, free system stack 122 words
Tasks: Linux(ready,93) HEAT(blocked,297) CanReceiv(blocked,809) CanSender(blocked,337) CanClock(blocked,352) TMC(blocked,17) MAIN(running,720) IDLE(ready,19)
Owned mutexes: HTTP(MAIN)
=== Platform ===
Last reset 04:17:50 ago, cause: software
Last software reset at 2021-03-01 06:04, reason: User, none spinning, available RAM 145352, slot 0
Software reset code 0x0012 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0044a000 BFAR 0x00000000 SP 0x00000000 Task Linu Freestk 0 n/a
Error status: 0x00
Aux0 errors 0,0,0
Aux1 errors 0,0,0
MCU temperature: min 38.4, current 38.5, max 38.7
Supply voltage: min 23.9, current 24.0, max 24.1, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
12V rail voltage: min 12.1, current 12.1, max 12.2, under voltage events: 0
Driver 0: position 35000, standstill, reads 23835, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/193
Driver 1: position -35000, standstill, reads 23835, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/588
Driver 2: position 14397, standstill, reads 23835, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/966
Driver 3: position 0, standstill, reads 23835, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 4: position 0, standstill, reads 23835, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/149
Driver 5: position 0, standstill, reads 23835, writes 0 timeouts 0, SG min/max not available
Date/time: 2021-03-01 10:22:36
Slowest loop: 89.64ms; fastest: 0.05ms
=== Storage ===
Free file entries: 10
SD card 0 not detected, interface speed: 37.5MBytes/sec
SD card longest read time 0.0ms, write time 0.0ms, max retries 0
=== Move ===
DMs created 125, maxWait 158ms, bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset 0.000
=== MainDDARing ===
Scheduled moves 187797, completed moves 187797, hiccups 0, stepErrors 0, LaErrors 0, Underruns [0, 0, 0], CDDA state -1
=== AuxDDARing ===
Scheduled moves 0, completed moves 0, hiccups 0, stepErrors 0, LaErrors 0, Underruns [0, 0, 0], CDDA state -1
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1 -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.2
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.0
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Movement lock held by null
HTTP* is doing "M122" in state(s) 0
Telnet is idle in state(s) 0
File* is idle in state(s) 0
USB is idle in state(s) 0
Aux is idle in state(s) 0
Trigger* is idle in state(s) 0
Queue* is idle in state(s) 0
LCD is idle in state(s) 0
SBC is idle in state(s) 0
Daemon is idle in state(s) 0
Aux2 is idle in state(s) 0
Autopause* is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Filament sensors ===
Extruder 0: no data received
=== CAN ===
Messages queued 296, send timeouts 0, received 502, lost 0, longest wait 1ms for reply type 6029, free buffers 48
=== SBC interface ===
State: 4, failed transfers: 0
Last transfer: 1ms ago
RX/TX seq numbers: 8784/8784
SPI underruns 0, overruns 0
Number of disconnects: 0, IAP RAM available 0x2c8a8
Buffer RX/TX: 0/0-0
=== Duet Control Server ===
Duet Control Server v3.2.2
Code buffer space: 4096
Configured SPI speed: 8000000 Hz
Full transfers per second: 37.24
Maximum length of RX/TX data transfers: 5152/1664

M122 B121
Diagnostics for board 121:
Duet TOOL1LC firmware version 3.2.2 (2021-02-11)
Bootloader ID: SAMC21 bootloader version 2.2 (2021-01-16b1)
Never used RAM 3540, free system stack 22 words
HEAT 86 CanAsync 89 CanRecv 83 TMC 56 MAIN 218 AIN 64
Last reset 05:06:54 ago, cause: power up
Last software reset time unknown, reason: OutOfMemory, available RAM 15440, slot 1
Software reset code 0x01c0 ICSR 0x00000000 SP 0x20003638 Task MAIN Freestk 796 ok
Stack: 20000d10 0001234f 20000d10 0001e5f1 00000000 00004008 20000d10 0001e565 20000d0c 00004000 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 00000000 0001e42d 00004000 000191b1 a5a5a5a5 000191cd a5a5a5a5 0001219d a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5
Driver 0: position 23666167, 409.0 steps/mm, standstill, SG min/max 0/32, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 18, reads 17544, writes 1, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0
Moves scheduled 192404, completed 192404, in progress 0, hiccups 0
No step interrupt scheduled
VIN: 24.2V
MCU temperature: min 22.8C, current 41.5C, max 56.2C
Ticks since heat task active 159, ADC conversions started 18341517, completed 18341516, timed out 0
Last sensors broadcast 0x00000002 found 1 162 ticks ago, loop time 0
CAN messages queued 148007, send timeouts 0, received 256537, lost 0, free buffers 36
=== Filament sensors ===
Interrupt 5 to 34us, poll 9 to 744us
Driver 0: pos 311.13, errs: frame 72 parity 0 ovrun 0 pol 0 ovdue 0

gunrak

Will give it a try:

gunrak

Apparently no difference with shelded cable routed as far as possible from stepper and stepper cable:

Next I will check the magnet.

gunrak

@dc42 said in Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms:

Filament slippage, as you suspect.

Could filament slippage actually increase max up to 115% as you can see in screenshot? And negative min, how could I achieve that due to slippage? correct me if I am wrong but negative value means that filament is traveling backward, correct? If so, slippage should not cause the issue.

Severe interference pickup by the cable. Run M122 at the end of the print and look at the filament monitor error counts. That will indicate whether interference is a problem.

Changed wired to shielded cable, wired away from all possible interferers, did not help. In theory it still could be potential issue.

We saw a small number of instances during inspection of the magnet not being held securely on the shaft, leaving it free to rotate on the shaft. So check that the magnet is secure.

Still have to check this, but again, could freely rotating magnet cause negative min, and 115% max?

It could possibly be that a part of your print uses the extruder in a way that confuses the firmware. If that's the case then it should be consistent if you repeat the print.

Print is plain as it possible be, I do use 0.8mm nozzle, but print speeds are relatively low and retraction is set to 0.6mm 35 mm/s. Not sure that such a plain print could could cause confusion to firmware.

Before last print finished 99%, it was paused due to sensor error or something like that, even if filament monitoring set to disabled (S0)

Could it actually be firmware bug? Anything to do with the fact that I use toolboard? Is there any way to debug/log/view communication between sensor and firmware?

o_lampe

@gunrak said in Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms:

Anything to do with the fact that I use toolboard?

@gunrak said in Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms:

MCU temperature: min 22.8C, current 41.5C, max 56.2C

Maybe not related, but IMHO the MCU temp is pretty high on the toolboard.

gunrak

And it happened again!

gunrak

@o_lampe

According to MCU specs 56C is more than fine:

gunrak

Last print:

01/03/2021, 16:52:29
M122 B121
Diagnostics for board 121:
Duet TOOL1LC firmware version 3.2.2 (2021-02-11)
Bootloader ID: SAMC21 bootloader version 2.2 (2021-01-16b1)
Never used RAM 3540, free system stack 22 words
HEAT 86 CanAsync 89 CanRecv 83 TMC 56 MAIN 218 AIN 64
Last reset 04:19:02 ago, cause: power up
Last software reset time unknown, reason: OutOfMemory, available RAM 15440, slot 1
Software reset code 0x01c0 ICSR 0x00000000 SP 0x20003638 Task MAIN Freestk 796 ok
Stack: 20000d10 0001234f 20000d10 0001e5f1 00000000 00004008 20000d10 0001e565 20000d0c 00004000 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 00000000 0001e42d 00004000 000191b1 a5a5a5a5 000191cd a5a5a5a5 0001219d a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5 a5a5a5a5
Driver 0: position 21862546, 409.0 steps/mm, standstill, SG min/max 0/28, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 14, reads 37736, writes 14, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0
Moves scheduled 183899, completed 183899, in progress 0, hiccups 0
No step interrupt scheduled
VIN: 24.2V
MCU temperature: min 32.6C, current 46.7C, max 57.0C
Ticks since heat task active 31, ADC conversions started 15480195, completed 15480195, timed out 0
Last sensors broadcast 0x00000002 found 1 35 ticks ago, loop time 0
CAN messages queued 194317, send timeouts 0, received 323864, lost 0, free buffers 36
=== Filament sensors ===
Interrupt 5 to 34us, poll 9 to 748us
Driver 0: pos 10.55, errs: frame 39 parity 0 ovrun 0 pol 0 ovdue 0

01/03/2021, 16:51:47
M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 3 MB6HC version 3.2.2 running on Duet 3 MB6HC v1.01 or later (SBC mode)
Board ID: 08DJM-956BA-NA3TJ-6J9DA-3SN6S-9AAUV
Used output buffers: 7 of 40 (39 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 149788
Dynamic ram: 63388 of which 172 recycled
Never used RAM 145484, free system stack 130 words
Tasks: Linux(ready,95) HEAT(blocked,272) CanReceiv(blocked,809) CanSender(blocked,339) CanClock(blocked,352) TMC(blocked,17) MAIN(running,675) IDLE(ready,19)
Owned mutexes: HTTP(MAIN)
=== Platform ===
Last reset 04:18:19 ago, cause: power up
Last software reset at 2021-03-01 06:04, reason: User, none spinning, available RAM 145352, slot 0
Software reset code 0x0012 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0044a000 BFAR 0x00000000 SP 0x00000000 Task Linu Freestk 0 n/a
Error status: 0x00
Aux0 errors 0,0,0
Aux1 errors 0,0,0
MCU temperature: min 38.1, current 39.4, max 40.2
Supply voltage: min 23.9, current 24.0, max 24.1, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
12V rail voltage: min 12.1, current 12.1, max 12.2, under voltage events: 0
Driver 0: position 35000, standstill, reads 9594, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 1: position -35000, standstill, reads 9594, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 2: position 14397, standstill, reads 9594, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 3: position 0, standstill, reads 9594, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 4: position 0, standstill, reads 9595, writes 1 timeouts 0, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 5: position 0, standstill, reads 9596, writes 0 timeouts 0, SG min/max not available
Date/time: 2021-03-01 14:51:46
Slowest loop: 198.42ms; fastest: 0.02ms
=== Storage ===
Free file entries: 10
SD card 0 not detected, interface speed: 37.5MBytes/sec
SD card longest read time 0.0ms, write time 0.0ms, max retries 0
=== Move ===
DMs created 125, maxWait 160ms, bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset 0.000
=== MainDDARing ===
Scheduled moves 187795, completed moves 187795, hiccups 0, stepErrors 0, LaErrors 0, Underruns [0, 0, 0], CDDA state -1
=== AuxDDARing ===
Scheduled moves 0, completed moves 0, hiccups 0, stepErrors 0, LaErrors 0, Underruns [0, 0, 0], CDDA state -1
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1 -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.2
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.0
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Movement lock held by null
HTTP* is doing "M122" in state(s) 0
Telnet is idle in state(s) 0
File* is idle in state(s) 0
USB is idle in state(s) 0
Aux is idle in state(s) 0
Trigger* is idle in state(s) 0
Queue* is idle in state(s) 0
LCD is idle in state(s) 0
SBC is idle in state(s) 0
Daemon is idle in state(s) 0
Aux2 is idle in state(s) 0
Autopause* is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Filament sensors ===
Extruder 0: no data received
=== CAN ===
Messages queued 229693, send timeouts 0, received 162403, lost 0, longest wait 3ms for reply type 6048, free buffers 48
=== SBC interface ===
State: 4, failed transfers: 0
Last transfer: 1ms ago
RX/TX seq numbers: 8291/8291
SPI underruns 0, overruns 0
Number of disconnects: 0, IAP RAM available 0x2c8a8
Buffer RX/TX: 0/0-0
=== Duet Control Server ===
Duet Control Server v3.2.2
Code buffer space: 4096
Configured SPI speed: 8000000 Hz
Full transfers per second: 44.04
Maximum length of RX/TX data transfers: 5076/1684

gunrak

@dc42

I did check the magnet and it sits firmly on the shaft.

So, I am out of ideas, what else I could do.

Duet 3 is probably the best 3D printer board available on the market, combined with Toolboard it offers unique functionality. I love it. It is so good that I have temptation to replace my CNCs Duet 2 with Duet 3, especially if I keep SBC mode in mind.

Magnetic Filament Sensor is exactly 65EUR of disappointment + wasted time and filament on failed prints, especially if it not clear where is the issue. Hardware, software, user error?
It defiantly has great potential, but it should be reliable, I guess I will try to return it and get the refund, and print out simple microswitch filament run out sensor.

dc42

@o_lampe said in Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms:

@dc42
Maybe it's not the right place to discuss it here, but a optical mouse sensor reading the surface of a rough idler roller would have a much higher resolution than a magnet&hall combo. And the rough surface of the roller avoids slipping, too.

Just my 2 Cent

Have you seen https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/18497/indirect-laser-monitor-remix-ii-working ?

dc42

@gunrak said in Magnetic Filament Sensor - false alarms:

So, I am out of ideas, what else I could do.

Please post the GCode file you are printing. I have a machine using a tool board with magnetic filament monitor, so I will try printing your part on it.

gunrak

@dc42

I did upgrade to RRF 3.3beta1, just to see if this will make any difference.
Errors are still there, but a bit less than yesterday printing the same file:

and .zip is not allowed to upload.

Uploaded to DropBox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnevy8i5yhnym6x/f119e32e-cf3a-46c6-97b3-237b4b389e3c_0.8n_0.4mm_PLA__3h34m.gcode?dl=0

Hobby-Store

Hi,

Please help our client or do you accept the sensor under warranty?