effector tilting into bed on print

Danal

Try generating a completely new bed.g here:

http://www.escher3d.com/pages/wizards/wizardbed.php

TimVukman

I would appreciate so clarification on the G31 in Config.g
Here is mine
G31 P500 X11 Y0 Z-1.209

I am clear on Z-1.209 as that is my actual trigger height at center
I am clear on the P500 as that is the value of the Z probe for a mechanical switch

I'm not so clear on the X and Y values. In reading the documentation here,
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_G30_Single_Z_Probe

for the G31 code,

"Xnnn Probe X offset(note)1
Ynnn Probe Y offset(note)1

Notes

(note)1X and Y offsets of the Z probe relative to the print head (i.e. the position when the empty tool is selected) can be specified. This allows you to calculate your probe coordinates based on the geometry of the bed, without having to correct them for Z probe X and Y offset."

I do not see how this functions. My understanding is that these values should identify the location of the actual switch relative to the nozzle since in my case, the nozzle contacts the bed to trip the switch.
In my G31 above, is it not saying that my nozzle is 11mm closer to the X pillar than my switch is? This would make the switch think it is measuring a value for X0, Z0 when the nozzle is physically at X0, Y0. I'm going to have to measure the 11mm. I don't think it is correct and I don't know where it came from. I might be a number from the manufacturer.

Danal

@timvukman said in effector tilting into bed on print:

My understanding is that these values should identify the location of the actual switch relative to the nozzle since in my case, the nozzle contacts the bed to trip the switch.

Yes. Conceptually correct.

.

Imagine a printer where the Z-Probe just triggered, and that the particular nozzle and Z-probe on our imaginary printer are mounted such that the probe triggers when the bed is 8.492mm below the nozzle, and the probe is mounted so that the probe's "sensor center" is 10mm in the plus X direction from the nozzle, and 5mm in the minus Y direction.

That would result in:

G31 X10 Y-5 Z-8.492

If, in your case, the nozzle IS the probe, the G31 will probably look something like this:

G31 X0 Y0 Z-0.1

Zero for X and Y, because the nozzle is the probe. Z- because the nozzle has to move a tiny bit "up" to sense, thus making it as though "the sensor is mounted a fraction above the nozzle". -0.1 is a starting guess. It may be -0.05 or -0.15 or ...

TimVukman

Thanks Danal
Here is the new beg.g file
; bed.g file for RepRapFirmware, generated by Escher3D calculator
; 10 points, 6 factors, probing radius: 10, probe offset (0, 0)
G30 P0 X0.00 Y10.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P1 X8.66 Y5.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P2 X8.66 Y-5.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P3 X0.00 Y-10.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P4 X-8.66 Y-5.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P5 X-8.66 Y5.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P6 X0.00 Y5.00 Z-99999 H0
G30 P7 X4.33 Y-2.50 Z-99999 H0
G30 P8 X-4.33 Y-2.50 Z-99999 H0
G30 P9 X0 Y0 Z-99999 S6

My bed is 220mm. I used 100mm as the radius in the formula

I get no messages, and nothing is recorded in the g-code console.

I watched it very carefully as something caught my eye while doing this so many times.

The effector goes off to a spot between my X and Z columns and lowers, but not enough to trip the Z switch, and then it moves left to just past the Z column and dips down again without triggering. It then centers and triggers.

I think it is doing the same thing 10 times and then stops.

Do you think maybe I've got a couple of axis motors mixed up?

I will check, but that is going to make me feel terrible if this has been for a dumb mistake.
If that's the case, it would still home properly, right? and I could still set my trigger height?
I'll update soon

Tim

TimVukman

my columns are

Y X

Is this correct?

TimVukman

Ok, The correct wires from the board go to the correct motors.

Whew!!

dc42

@timvukman said in effector tilting into bed on print:

The effector goes off to a spot between my X and Z columns and lowers, but not enough to trip the Z switch, and then it moves left to just past the Z column and dips down again without triggering. It then centers and triggers.

If you have deployprobe.g and retractprobe.g files in /sys that you didn't create yourself, delete them.

Danal

Looking at the printer, Z tower (motor, endstop) in the back, X to your left, Y to your right.

Then check movement. Make all moves with web control, if any validation step fails, stop and report back:

Home All (or G28) Validation: Proper home move.
Move Z downward, so web commands will be "negative" buttons. Move -50. Validation: Effector moves down, and stays centered between towers.
Move Y +100. Validation: Effector should move STRAIGHT TOWARD Z TOWER; and effector does not change height above bed at all. Yes, confusingly enough, Y+ is straight toward Z tower.
Move Y -100. Validation: Effector moves back to center, does not change height above bed.
Move X +100. Validation: Effector moves to a position NOT aligned with ANY tower... it will be between the Z and Y towers, about 2/3 toward the Y tower. (Of course, it is 90 degrees from the Y axis we found in step(3)... and 90 degrees is about 2/3 off from the 120 degree spacing of the towers). Height above bed should not change.

That validates every kind of move.

TimVukman

Home All (or G28) Validation: Proper home move.
Confirmed to have worked properly and registered in the system (web buttons Home X, Home Y, and Home Z turned blue. X is 0. Y is 0. Z is 198

Move Z downward, so web commands will be "negative" buttons. Move -50. Validation: Effector moves down, and stays centered between towers.
Confirmed that effector moved down 5 shots of 10 and is still centered. X is 0. Y is 0. X is Z is 148

Move Y +100. Validation: Effector should move STRAIGHT TOWARD Z TOWER; and effector does not change height above bed at all. Yes, confusingly enough, Y+ is straight toward Z tower.
Effector has moved to sit directly in front of the Z column. Height is 148. X is 0, Y is 80. Diagonal rods are almost, but not quite vertical.

Move Y -100. Validation: Effector moves back to center, does not change height above bed.
Effector has moved back to about center. Height is 148 X is 0, Y is -15

Move X +100. Validation: Effector moves to a position NOT aligned with ANY tower... it will be between the Z and Y towers, about 2/3 toward the Y tower. (Of course, it is 90 degrees from the Y axis we found in step(3)... and 90 degrees is about 2/3 off from the 120 degree spacing of the towers). Height above bed should not change.
It looks about right. X is 84.1 Y is -12.6 Z is 148

I took the top apart before I did what was above, because I had a small gap on one rail.

I had my motors / columns as described above which mean that I needed to swap X with Y to match the positions as you described them. I swapped the end stops as well.

One significant observation came when I removed the bed to trace the wires. On the left side, the bracket that clips on the rail and holds the female nut for the bed was not sitting down flat on the rail. It look like one end bent into the side of the rail. There was a definite fold line in the clip. I straightened that and put the clip back in place. It is now sitting flat. I believe that to be cause of the problem, IE the be was 1/8" higher there.

I ran Auto Delta Configuration from the browser interface. The start is not registered in the G-Code Console. There are no messages indicating pass, fail, or error in the G-Code Console.

There have been no changes in Config-Override.g.

I noticed that in my bed.g file, I had entered the radius as 10 instead of 100.

Fixed, created a new bed.g file.

The Auto Configuration certainly changed where it was probing and now appears appropriately spread out.

The was no on screen message during or after running Auto Configuration. There are no new messages in the G-Code Console. There are no changes or additions to the H values in the Bed.G file. There are no changes in Config-Override.g,

dc42

Did you see my earlier reply?

If you have deployprobe.g and retractprobe.g files in /sys that you didn't create yourself, delete them.

TimVukman

Hi dc42
Yes, I read it, but I did not delete the files as I forgot about it in swapping everything else around. I have now deleted the files and am pleased to report that I got a message on the screen and in G-Code console at the end of the AutoConfig.

"G32
Calibrated 6 factors using 10 points, deviation before 2.988 after 0.107"

M665 reported different settings than those that I entered in my Config.g.

**M665

Diagonal 360.200, delta radius 124.727, homed height 204.383, bed radius 85.0, X -0.501°, Y -4.385°, Z 0.000°**

**× M666

Endstop adjustments X2.88 Y1.39 Z-4.27, tilt X0.00% Y0.00%**

TimVukman

Ok
I ran Auto Configuration again, and I should not have done that.

My effector left the area defined by the bed. I killed it with emergency stop after one of the magnetic rods popped off the carriage. I don't think M500 was a good idea.

I have my original values for Config.g G31 written down.

Please advise as to how I should proceed. I will leave it alone until I hear back.

dc42

Your Y tower angle offset of more than 4 degrees sounds suspicious. If the 3 sides of your base and upper triangles are all of equal lengths, it should be much smaller than that.

Your endstop adjustments are also rather large, assuming you attempted to get all 3 endstop switches at more of less the same height (getting them equal to within 1mm isn't normally difficult).

What type of Z probe are you using?

TimVukman

When you mention y tower offset, are you referring to the -4.385 that was returned in M665?

This was an FLSun kit, so my verticals are all the same length(3) as are each of the cross members(9)

As I recall, the end stops were not too hard to adjust. Maybe I should redo them after all the moving I have been doing?

dc42

And what type of Z probe does it have?

TimVukman

The probe is a 3 pin switch that can be set to either normally open or normally closed.
The switch is on the side of the effector and is triggered by pushing the nozzle into the bed.

Is the Duet effector with carriages hard to install? I would like to stop pushing the nozzle into the bed to trigger it. It seems to really push on it around the outer diameter of the bed when all the rods are on an angle.

T3P3Tony

@timvukman The Smart effector has carriage adaptor that are sized to screw into "standard" linear rails that alot of the wheeled carriages are modelled on as well:

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Smart_effector_and_carriage_adapters_for_delta_printer#Section_Carriage_Adaptor_Dimensions

You will need to do some requiring to use it:
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Smart_effector_and_carriage_adapters_for_delta_printer#Section_Connectors_and_Wiring

dc42

@timvukman said in effector tilting into bed on print:

The probe is a 3 pin switch that can be set to either normally open or normally closed.
The switch is on the side of the effector and is triggered by pushing the nozzle into the bed.

I suggest you watch carefully as it probes the bed, to see if you can see any reason why the height at which the probe triggers may change with different XY positions.

TimVukman

@t3p3tony
Hi:
I have reviewed that documentation in quite a bit of detail. As I read it, it indicates that it would support rails or wheels. My current factory setup has three wheels spread over a fair amount of vertical carriage height. The measurements for the duet carriages indicate that the wheels would be vertically closer together which I feel would be more stable. I have lots of extra wheels, so I feel that adding a fourth wheel would be fairly straight forward.

I am not a huge fan of trying to install crimp connectors on small wires / sockets. I'd like to feel comfortable that these are large enough to work with. I'm not as good as I once was with these things.

TimVukman

@dc42
I would think that the height must change at various XY positions to some degree, by virtue of the diagonal rods following pendulum arcs. I thought that was why there was an H value in the G30 codes so that offsets could be put in to level the effector.

I think I am still confused between calibration and height adjustments. The documentation shows a beautiful light green flat surface for the mesh. I get something that looks more like a coffee cup with lots of blue. I think it is all indicated above.

I honestly think that my tilting problem was the nozzle contacting the bed because the plastic clip on the bottom rail between the X and Z columns was not sitting flat. On that basis, I think it is "fixed"

I guess I don't get what Auto Configuration means. It doesn't seem like it is automatic since it changed values and now put the nozzle off the bed diameter.