Spurious heater faults and how to avoid them
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David,
I will try the tests you suggest.
But in any case I have insulated the hot end with heat resistant material so that it should not be affected by the print cooling fan.
Elmoret,
Resistance is 15.7 Ohm, which I calculate at 24V is 36.7W
Heat up is pretty fast.
Maurice -
I guess the higher than usual gain is due to your insulation then.
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Test Results @ S0.8
- Fan Test
220 C down to 214.4C then up to 225.8C
i.e. -5.6 + 5.8C - PLA Extrusion Test
22C down to 216.3C then up to 223.5
i.e. -3.7 + 3.5C
Results look pretty good to me.
N.B tried with S1.0 but hot end could not reach 220C in acceptable time, slower enough to 216.1C ?
- Fan Test
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Looking good!
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dcaron, have you looked in the Console page of DuetWebControl or PanelDue to see the cause of the heater fault?
If you still get heater faults with the heater off, then it must be registering a disconnected thermistor. A possible workaround is to connect a resistor of several hundred Kohms in parallel with the thermistor. This will increase the reading at low temperatures.
After you select a higher setpoint temperature, there is no check on heating rate until twice the heater dead time has expired. So this should get you to 60C without faulting.
Another possibility is to use a thermocouple or PT100 instead of the thermistor. These devices cover a wide temperature range without sacrificing resolution at the ends.
HTH David
Thanks for all your answers.
I did install a parallel resistance and now it's registering a temperature which is obviously off. I don't mind at the moment and I should get the right setting by trial and error.
I do agree it will be better with a pt100 or thermocouple. I now realize I should have gotten the pt100 daughter board with my preorder along with a mini IR probe. Unfortunately, the themocouple connection on a Dyzend is threaded (which is good) but is not compatible with other standard pt100. They do have an adapter for an Ultimaker style pt100. I don't know where I could get a compatible rtd at a decent cost.Now to get printing…
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In the Web inrterface 'Paused' the printer and set Heater 1 to 0 deg C. while i was out.
On 'Resume' rest Heater 1 temp but forgot to turn down printer Fan so caused a heater 'error'
"heater temp rising to slowly"!
So tried to reset heater with M562 H1 as per the notes - no apparent result.
So checked RepRap Wiki on g-codes which gave syntax as Pn not Hn
So tried M562 P1 - still no apparent result.
but then noticed in Web interface that Heater 1 was 'inactive'
So tried T0 and then all was well.
Whatever the M562 correct syntax is it looks like Hot End then has to be re-selected!? -
Yes the heater is turned off when a heater fault occurs so you will need to send a command that turns it on again after resetting it with M562 P1.
I plan to do the hot end heater tuning with the fan both off and on at some point.
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This stuff will help a lot:
Costs next to nothing but will save you all the headaches especially when layer fans turn on.
I'd advise it on a volcano style block.
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I've been having faults during prints. Its all sporadic, but the time I saw the error it was an excursion error that said the temp changed by more than 10C. I just changed my config.g file to allow up to 20c change and I wrapped my heater block in kapton (I have no other forms of insulation).
I was using an E3D hotend in my Kraken for a while and I recently switched to one of my volcanoes. I'm still not sure why, but I had 0 issues with the E3D. Some differences I noticed are the silicone sock I made for the E3D block, and theres a recent issue with my water cooling setup leaking, but I changed the tubes this morning and it still had the problem. I'm hoping its just an issue with when the AC in my apartment kicks on and that this kapton will fix it (I also added 1/3 of a chamber on the side of my printer to try to eliminate some drafts). I'll post whether this appears to fix my issues or not.
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Turns out it was just a wiring issue, one of the crimps wasn't properly done.
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For multiple extrusion with a duel Chimera type hot end, the biggest overhead is that,
on every layer, hot end 1 has to cool down to standby temp, while hot end 2 heats up from standby temp to working temp.
So the objective is
a) Have minimum difference between standby and working temp.
b) Take minimum time for cool down and heat up process.
Can this be achieved when PID tuning is enabled or would i be better off going back to the 'old' way of working?
I'm using 24V, 37W heaters
Thanks -
For multiple extrusion with a duel Chimera type hot end, the biggest overhead is that,
on every layer, hot end 1 has to cool down to standby temp, while hot end 2 heats up from standby temp to working temp.You should not be waiting for the active hot end to cool down to standby temperature, just for the new active nozzle to heat up (which takes less time on most systems). The M116 command has optional parameters specifically so that you can achieve this.
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The PID tuning aims to prevent significant overshoot at the expense of approaching the target temperature more slowly than is possible with more aggressive parameters, that said you can modify the parameters to meet your needs. If you are ok starting printing without the temperature stable then you can be more aggressive.
When I was experimenting with chimera I found it was the cool down time that limited the tool change speed rather than the warm up but that was ages ago before PID tuning in the Duet. I ended up making holes in the M90 fan duct to blow on both heater blocks so that they cooled down quicker, even though that meant they heated up slower.
Cheers
Tony
Edit, David got there first
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When I issue a M562 H1 I am able to clear the fault, but it doesn't seem like the web interface turns on the heater once I set the temp back up.
It will show it being set to 230, but the temps act like the heater is off
Using v1.16
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You need to re-select the tool, e.g. send T0.
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Hi. This is should be a simple question and i think i already know the answer. I am printing a very small part and need my fans running at max and when they first come on they knock about 20c off the hot end temp, so i think just for this small part i want to increase the fault delay so i can get the part printed….
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Best bet is to ramp up the fan speed, do it before the print starts if you absolutely need 100% even on the first layer.
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Tuning the heater with the fan fully on may also help.
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I am seeing theese spurious temperature faults. First I started getting them after installing a fan for printing PLA but limiting the fan speed resolved that.
Now I am getting them again when printing nylon at 260C (no fan). I have autotuned the PID regulator to 270C.
The resulting PID paramters I am using is M307 H1 A383.6 C190.7 D7 B0. Do theese look sane?The termistor is configured as M305 P1 T100000 B4388 R4700 H0 L0 and is supposed to be a Semitec 104GT2 thermistor from e3d (I am pretty sure it is since I got it from a reutable vendor).
I have tried to change the fault time to 20s , M570 H1 P20 T15, but I still get faults and I dont really want to go further.
One interesting thing is that it pretty much always happens at the same time. All the failed objects look the same. It is after switching from infill to a printing a top layer. On the other hand I have tried extruding as much as possible and watching the temperature and it does not drop more than 5C ever.
Any idea what to try? Do I need a thermocoupler? A better thermistor?
All help is greatly appreciated!
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That D parameter looks rather high. Try reducing it to 4 or 5. If that results in temperature oscillations, increase it again. Make sure that the fan is directed at the print, not at the heater block. Also, putting a silicone sock over the heater block will help shield it from the fan.
