Artifacacts on prints
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Hello to all,
I have a problem with artifacts on my print, in my opinion these are VFA problems. I have to print the outer walls of the object at a very low speed (20 mm/s) to have a clean print.
The problem may be that he wants to get too good quality, unfortunately I don't have a comparison with other good machines so I ask you for your opinions. But what surprises me is that most profiles for similar printers print the outer walls at +100mm/sec. I print in ABS and use OrcaSlicer.My machine is a printer similar to voron trident on a 3030 frame. I use Duet 2wifi + dueX5. I have a heavy tool head, with voron tap, lgx standard extruder and dragon highflow hotend. For a long time I tried to fight the problem on my own and changed the following parts:
- Hiwin x and y rails
- Gates Puleys and belts
- Pins instead of screws in pulleys axis
- 0.9 degree Steppers Motors on XY
- Dumpers on xy steppers motors
Unfortunately, it did not have an effect. I have a similar DIY printer (voron 2.4) with similar problems.
I print the outer walls with settings: 100mm/s speed, 800mm/s2 acc and 8mm/s (480mm/min) jerk:
These two prints differ only in the speed of the outer contours:
Photo
My Input Shaping settings are: ZVDD 42Hz:
No IS Photo
After IS PhotoMy config.g:
;##### GENERAL ####################################################################### G90 ; send absolute coordinates... M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves M550 P"TridOrt 300" ; set printer name M669 K1 ; select CoreXY mode ;##### NETWORK ######################################################################## M552 S1 ; enable network M586 P0 S1 ; enable HTTP M586 P1 S0 ; disable FTP M586 P2 S0 ; disable Telnet ;##### DRIVERS ######################################################################## M569 P0 S1 ; physical drive 0 goes forwards M569 P1 S1 ; physical drive 1 goes forwards M569 P4 S0 ; physical drive 2 goes forwards M569 P5 S1 ; physical drive 3 goes forwards M569 P6 S0 ; physical drive 4 goes forwards M569 P7 S1 ; physical drive 4 goes forwards ;M569 P8 S1 ; physical drive 4 goes forwards - Voron 2.4 ;M584 X0 Y1 Z7:6:5:8 E4 ; Set Z motors on drives 7,6,5 and 8 - Voron 2.4 M584 X0 Y1 Z5:6:7 E4 ; Set Z motors on drives 5,6 and 7 - Trident M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation ;Set xy steppers settings M92 X160.00 Y160.00 ; set steps per mm M913 X100 Y100 ; restore motor current percentage to 100% M906 X1300 Y1300 I75 ; motor drive current M203 X27000 Y27000 ; maximum speed (mm/min) 18000 M201 X10000 Y10000 ; maximum acceleration (mm/s²) 6000 M566 X900 Y900 ; instantaneous speed change / jerk (mm/min) 800 800 1000 1000 1200 1200 600 600 ;Set z steppers settings M92 Z1600.00 ; set steps per mm M913 Z100 ; restore motor current percentage to 100% M906 Z1100 I75 ; motor drive current M203 Z1500 ; maximum speed (mm/min) 2400 M201 Z200 ; maximum acceleration (mm^2/s)250 M566 Z60 ; instantaneous speed change (mm/min)120 ;Set e stepper settings M92 E412.00 ; set steps per mm LGX ;<= wg 100mm M913 E100 ; restore motor current percentage to 100% ;M906 E300 ; motor drive current było 300 CW2 M906 E600 ; motor drive current było 600 LGX ;M906 E600 ; motor drive current było 600 Orbiter M203 E7200 ; maximum speed (mm/min) 8000 M201 E3000 ; maximum acceleration (mm/s²) 6000 M566 E3600 ; instantaneous speed change (mm/min) 3600 M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout ;##### AXIS LIMITS ######################################################################## M208 X0 Y0 Z0.0 S1 ; set axis minima M208 X301 Y307 Z295 S0 ; set axis maxima ;##### ENDSTOPS ########################################################################### M574 X2 S1 P"xstop" ; configure active-high endstop for high end on X via pin xstop M574 Y2 S1 P"ystop" ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Y via pin ystop ;M574 Z2 S4 ;P"zstop" ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Z via pin zstop - stall detection - Voron 2.4 ;M915 Z R0 F0 ; stall detection on z axis - Voron 2.4 M574 Z2 S1 P"duex.e2_stop+duex.e3_stop+duex.e4_stop" ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Z via pin zstop ;##### Z-PROBE ########################################################################### ;tap probe K0 M558 P5 C"duex.e5_stop" A30 H5 R0.1 F400:180 T99999 S0.002 B0 K0 G31 P1000 K0 X0 Y0 Z-0.56 ;z macra bylo 1.68 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height ; mniej znaczy wyzej -1,34 M98 P"Scripts/tap_z_offset.g" A0.34 ; mniej znaczy wyzej -1,34 0,30 ;bed probe K1 M558 P8 C"zstop" A30 H5 R0.1 F300:180 T99999 S0.002 B0 K1 G31 P1000 K1 X0 Y0 Z0 ;M557 X20:230 Y25:235 S70 ; define mesh grid M557 X10:290 Y10:290 P8 ; define mesh grid ;M671 X-65.0:-65.0:316.0:316.0 Y3.0:327.0:327.0:3.0 S10 ; Set the Z motor relative locations 2.4 M671 X-25:150:325 Y-25:335:-25 S10 ; Set the Z motor relative locations Tridort ;##### HEATERS ########################################################################### ;Bed M308 S0 P"e0temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 A"Bed Pad" ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin e0temp B4138 M308 S0 P"e0temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 A"Bed Pad" M308 S2 P"e1temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 A"Bed Plate" ; configure sensor 2 as thermistor on pin bedtemp 4267 M950 H0 C"duex.e6_heat" T2 Q10 ; create bed heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 0 ;M307 H0 B0 S0.50 ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit 2.4 250 M307 H0 B0 S0.60 ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit TridOrt M140 H0 ; map heated bed to heater 0 M143 H0 P1 T0 A2 S150 C0 ; Regulate (A2) bed heater (H0) to have pad sensor (T0) below 150°C. Use Heater monitor 1 for it M143 H0 P2 T0 A1 S155 C0 ; Shut off (A1) bed heater (H0) if pad sensor (T0) exceeds 155°C. Use Heater monitor 2 for it M143 H0 S120 ; Set bed heater max temperature to 120°C, use implict monitor 0 which is implicitly configured for heater fault M307 H0 R0.176 K0.068:0.000 D25.56 E1.35 S0.50 B0 ; PID ;Nozzle ;M308 S1 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4360 C6.58e-8 A"Afterburner" ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin bedtemp M308 S1 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4267 A"Afterburner" ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin bedtemp b4267 M950 H1 C"bedheat" T1 ; create nozzle heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 1 M307 H1 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater and set PWM limit ;PIDs ;M307 H1 R3.237 K0.307:0.000 D5.07 E1.35 S1.00 B0 V24.0 ; v6 hard nozzle (A) M307 H1 R3.178 K0.395:0.000 D4.45 E1.35 S1.00 B0 V24.0 ; dragon (B) ;M307 H1 R2.908 K2.731:0.000 D4.74 E1.35 S1.00 B0 V24.2 ; dragon HF (C) ;MCU M308 S3 Y"mcu-temp" A"Board" ; Board thermal sensor M912 P0 S-9 ; MCU tempurature sensor correction (subtract 9°C) ;Chamber M308 S10 P"e2temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 A"Chamber" M308 S11 P"e5temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4267 A"PTC Heater" ; configure sensor 2 as thermistor on pin bedtemp 4267 M950 H2 C"duex.e5_heat" T11 Q10 ; create chamber heater output on out2 and map it to sensor 2 M307 H2 B0 S0.50 ; disable bang-bang mode for the chamber heater and set PWM limit M143 H2 P2 T11 A2 S100 C0 ; Regulate (A2) bed heater (H0) to have pad sensor (T0) below 150°C. Use Heater monitor 1 for it M141 H2 ; map chamber to heater 2 M143 H2 S110 ; set temperature limit for heater 2 to 60C M307 H2 R4.437 K2.911:0.000 D9.22 E1.35 S0.50 B0 ;##### FANS ########################################################################### ;Part cooler M950 F0 C"fan0" Q20 ; part cooler, set to 20Hz PWM M106 P0 C"PartCooler" ; Name it "PartCooler" ;Hot End M950 F1 C"fan1" Q20 ; hotend fan, set to 20Hz PWM M106 P1 T50 H1 C"ToolFan" ; attach hotend fan to heater 1 and set activation temperature to 50°C ;LED M950 F2 C"e1heat" Q1250 ; LEDs, set to 1250Hz PWM M106 P2 S0.5 C"LED" ; ;Chamber Fan ;M950 F3 C"exp.heater3" Q5 ; hotend fan, set to 20Hz PWM ;M106 P3 S0.0 C"Chamber Fan" ; ;M106 P3 T30 S0.25 H10 "Chamber Fan" ;Duet Fan M950 F4 C"fan2" Q100 ; hotend fan, set to 20Hz PWM M106 P4 T50 H1 C"Duet Fan" X0.8 ; ;Bed Fans R ;M950 F5 C"duex.fan3" Q65535 ; LEDs, set to 1250Hz PWM ;M106 P5 T100 H0 C"Bed Fans" ;Bed Fans L M950 F6 C"duex.fan4" Q65535 ; LEDs, set to 1250Hz PWM M106 P6 T80 H0 C"Bed Fans" ;PTC Fan M950 F5 C"duex.fan5" Q65535 ; LEDs, set to 1250Hz PWM M106 P5 C"PTC Fan" ;##### TOOLS ########################################################################### M563 P0 D0 H1 F0 ; define tool 0 G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 0 axis offsets G10 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C T0 ; activate tool 0 ;#### AXIS CORECTION ########################################################################### M556 S100 X-0.636 ;#### PANELDUE ########################################################################### M575 P1 S1 B57600 ; enable support for PanelDue ;### FILAMENT SENSOR ######################################################################## M98 P"Scripts/filament_sensor_settings.g" ;### INPUT SHAPER ######################################################################## M593 P"zvdd" F42 ;M593 P"none" ;### NANOPIXEL ######################################################################## M950 E0 C"duex.e4_heat" T2 U3 Q3000000 M150 E0 R255 U0 B0 W0 P255 S1 F1 M150 E0 R0 U0 B0 W255 P255 S2 F0In conclusion, I would like to ask the following questions:
- Am I overreacting and the quality of the prints is ok? What is the real print speed at which I should have a printout without ghosting?
- Could this be due to the fact that TMC2660 work poorly with my steppers motors? If so, which stepper motors to buy? Should i take the time to try to adjust the settings of the TMC2660 driver?
- What other reasons could there be for this?
Thanks for your time and help
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undefined Phaedrux marked this topic as a question
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I understand that this is a difficult topic but I need your experience. Please answer my questions:
- At what speed do you print print outlines on similar machines? In prusa XL profiles (I think by weight the carriage is very similar) outlines are printed at 140mm/s, so I think there is something wrong with my printer. Is it really possible to have clean prints at 100mm/s?
- There is also the possibility that I do not have orginal GATES pulles and idlers. Do you think another replacement will help? If so, what is the best source in the EU to buy them from?
- Could it be a problem with matching the stepper motor to the TMC2660 controller? I found this blog. Does it make sense to do an investigation and test by changing all parameters of the drivers? Or is it a waste of time? Unfortunately, I can't find what stepper motor I have (I have heat sinks glued on the motor and the inscriptions are illegible). They are definitely 0.9 degrees 47mm stepper motors. Or maybe just maybe someone can recommend me motors that are sure to work well with the TMC2660 standard settings.
- Or maybe I have some kind of error in config.g. Although I have looked through it many times and found nothing strange there. This is also possible because I have similar problems on 2 machines.
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@Xink it’s hard to tell from your pictures, because it is not clear in what orientation the parts are printed, but it looks like the problem is at 45 degrees to the X and Y axis. This would indicate it’s an issue with one of the motors/drivers or the connected motion components (pulleys, bearings etc), as your machine is a CoreXY. Try moving or swapping drivers for the X and Y axes, then swap motors. I wouldn’t say this is stuttering on curves (usually jerk is set too low), as it doesn’t happen all the way around curves.
It may be worth testing for VFAs; see my post here, that links some videos that are well worth watching: https://forum.duet3d.com/post/321097
Ian
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Thank you very much for your reply. As soon as I have time I will try to check the mechanics again, according to your guidelines.
The question that bothers me the most is, is it possible to get a surface completely free of these artifacts? Or maybe people are just using more matte filaments or taking pictures in such a way that it is not visible. Is it invisible in your case?
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@Xink there are many variables that affect surface quality of prints. Here are a couple notable items, some RRF specific, some generic.
a) low jerk and high acceleration on average brings better motion results with RRF (and others)
b) it's best to tune PA to be as low as possible, likewise with retrac
c) Some artifacts do not come from the motion system but the filament feeder (yours look like they come from motion).
d) since mesh bed leveling introduces Z motion, make sure that acceleration on Z is high enough to avoid stop/start effects here.
e) in RRF (all official releases), mesh bed and IS have negative interactions because RRFs IS only works on longer segments. So most curved surfaces for example do not benefit from IS, and with mesh bed even straigh lines are segmented which can lead to little or no IS applied. Consider mesh bed height fading as a work around (expected to improve on RRF 3.6)
f) The main driver for bad outer quality is acceleration not terminal speed. I know a number of people that drop acceleration for outer walls to improve the appearance of their prints
g) As you suspect, how you take a photo of a print immensely changes how it looks
Harsh light at an angle brings out all the layers so any and all layer stacking deviations are well seen.
h) while matte prints look better, they often are an indicator for print temps being too low. CF filled filament and other fiber filled filaments are a notable exception. -
@Xink oh and lastly: You will never get a completely defect free prints, but you will be able to get prints where it either is part of the aesthetic (i.e. thick layer lines), or doesn't matter so much (most functional parts). The best way to a perfect surface finish is appropriate post processing (-;
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@Xink the bands on the rounded parts are not VFAs. If they are caused by ringing then you may find that installing RRF 3.6alpha2 improves them.
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I finally found the time to test and wanted to share my conclusions with you.
The vertical artifacts on the curves in the previous photos, were caused by some (Orca) slicer setting. Most probably the jerk is reduced too much somewhere (orca slicer changes jerk depending on line type). When using a Super Slicer, these artifacts are much less visible (constans jerk).
In my stuff I found 1.8 degree steppers. I decided to compare the prints with previous 0.9 degree steppers, the design of my printer allows me to change motors without changing belt tension. I prepared an object that requires line printing at 45 degrees to have clean information on each stepper. I present the results in the photos below:
And here I am very surprised, because both prints are almost identical and I can't tell which is better. I always thought that 1.8 motors were better.
On flat surfaces at some speeds you can clearly see the reflection of the belts. The arches and ends show artifacts with a smaller spacing than the belt. I understand that it is the superimposition of two effects, the reflection of the belt and the ringing?
