need Guru on duet 3 mini5 using stall guard/sensor less homing

moth4017

@danielkrah
Hi are you using sensor less homing on your Z access?

oliof

@moth4017 oh you're asking on sensorless for Z? That's quite likely not going to work since unless you're taking special precautions a) you can't move the Z fast enough b) your print head has to be super rigid so it doesn't just flex when it hits the print bed c) you'll need a rigid print bed that doesn't care about getting hit with the weight of the full gantry.

And even then, the lack of precision on sensorless homing really doesn't make it suitable for Z.

moth4017

@oliof Hi i can move my Z very fast at 10000mm/s if i want too but not recommended my Z axis is on 4:1 gear box belt driven so speed not an issue. Im not homing at the print head but at the base of the printer against end stops.

oliof

@moth4017 the best way forward is still to add two microswitches there. If you really insist, we'd need to see some pictures of the setup and your config.g and homez.g

moth4017

@oliof hi set up is 3 belt drives config and homing files at stat of thread.

oliof

@moth4017

H parameter in M915 should be set to the steps/mm for the Z axis which seems to be 320?
lines 19/23 in home_max_z is probably supposed to be a G4 call, not a G1 call.
Your M915s may need to have R0 rather than R1 (at least that's working for me).
you could replace the acceleration changes (line 32 etc.) by defining M201.1 in config.g with the special move accelerations.
line 41 should not be required.

moth4017

@oliof

Thanks for the input , tried all of your suggestions

changing the H value didnt seem to have much impact
changed the G1 to G4 ( my mistake )
R0 and R1 did try it but it should not make a difference
M201.1 it thought this had fixed it but on the 14th try failed to move front left stepper
will try tweeking a few values to see if i can make it more reliable

oliof

@moth4017 since your Z steppers are geared, you may run into issues there, so the H value might need to be adjusted accordingly

moth4017

@oliof
i have thought about the gearing but the stepper motor is still doing the same amount of steps , but the back EMF generated may happen sooner as there is more torque required, so maybe thats why the M201.1 was a little more reliable

SputnikOC3d

@moth4017 - whats not working ?

moth4017

@sputnikoc3d

Hi after a print is finished i send the Build plate to the bottom of the printer (core xy ) i have 3 Z motors belt driven.

when the bed is give the instruction to go to bed max ( gcode above) one or 2 of the motors will not be driven intermittently , sometimes this causes the Bed to fall off not ideal ..

oliof

that sounds like your mechanical system may have binding and is only marginally related to stall detection ... unless the binding is strong enough to trigger stall detection.

moth4017

@oliof

the belts and the gearbox's are very smooth running, i have built printer with ACME threads and these were very smooth but i think the belts and gear boxes could be as good or better.

Keep coming up with things i may have forgot.

did more testing tonight the M201.1 has defiantly made an improvement, played around with the H values did not seem to have any major effect other that a bigger/louder stopping noise until i went too far and didnt stall at all.

moth4017

more testing
drive 0 =Y
drive 1 =X
Drive 4,5,6 = Z FL FR RC

still getting stall warnings is this normal?

6/26/2022, 10:19:31 AM	=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 3 Mini 5+ version 3.4.1 (2022-06-01 21:06:56) running on Duet 3 Mini5plus WiFi (standalone mode)
Board ID: 3R9YY-6T9RL-D65J0-40KMN-2UW2Z-RHYT0
Used output buffers: 2 of 40 (38 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 103684
Dynamic ram: 111176 of which 24 recycled
Never used RAM 23540, free system stack 128 words
Tasks: NETWORK(ready,18.0%,238) HEAT(notifyWait,0.0%,326) Move(notifyWait,0.0%,267) CanReceiv(notifyWait,0.0%,942) CanSender(notifyWait,0.0%,356) CanClock(delaying,0.0%,337) TMC(delaying,1.3%,79) MAIN(running,79.8%,388) IDLE(ready,0.0%,29) AIN(delaying,0.8%,264), total 100.0%
Owned mutexes: WiFi(NETWORK) File(MAIN)
=== Platform ===
Last reset 00:06:27 ago, cause: power up
Last software reset at 2022-06-25 20:48, reason: User, GCodes spinning, available RAM 23540, slot 1
Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x00000000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0x00000000 Task MAIN Freestk 0 n/a
Error status: 0x00
MCU revision 3, ADC conversions started 387552, completed 387551, timed out 0, errs 0
Step timer max interval 752
MCU temperature: min 27.6, current 28.7, max 28.9
Supply voltage: min 23.6, current 23.8, max 24.1, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
Heap OK, handles allocated/used 99/0, heap memory allocated/used/recyclable 2048/1206/1206, gc cycles 0
Events: 0 queued, 0 completed
Driver 0: standstill, SG min 0, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 43, reads 5457, writes 17, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Driver 1: standstill, SG min 0, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 42, reads 5458, writes 16, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Driver 2: standstill, SG min 0, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 9, reads 5474, writes 0, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Driver 3: standstill, SG min 2, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 12, reads 5474, writes 1, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Driver 4: ok, SG min 0, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 34, reads 5462, writes 12, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Driver 5: ok, SG min 0, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 34, reads 5462, writes 12, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Driver 6: ok, SG min 0, read errors 0, write errors 0, ifcnt 33, reads 5462, writes 12, timeouts 0, DMA errors 0, CC errors 0
Date/time: 2022-06-26 10:19:29
Cache data hit count 678579454
Slowest loop: 187.57ms; fastest: 0.07ms
=== Storage ===
Free file entries: 6
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 22.5MBytes/sec
SD card longest read time 0.8ms, write time 0.0ms, max retries 0
=== Move ===
DMs created 83, segments created 18, maxWait 23687ms, bed compensation in use: none, comp offset 0.000
=== MainDDARing ===
Scheduled moves 24, completed 23, hiccups 0, stepErrors 0, LaErrors 0, Underruns [0, 0, 0], CDDA state -1
=== AuxDDARing ===
Scheduled moves 0, completed 0, hiccups 0, stepErrors 0, LaErrors 0, Underruns [0, 0, 0], CDDA state -1
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters 0 -1 -1 -1, chamber heaters 2 -1 -1 -1, ordering errs 0
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.2
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.3
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Movement lock held by File
HTTP is doing "M290 R1 Z-0.05" in state(s) 0
Telnet is idle in state(s) 0
File is ready with "M122" in state(s) 0 0 15, running macro
USB is idle in state(s) 0
Aux is idle in state(s) 0
Trigger is idle in state(s) 0
Queue is idle in state(s) 0
LCD is idle in state(s) 0
SBC is idle in state(s) 0
Daemon is doing "G4 S50 " in state(s) 0 0, running macro
Aux2 is idle in state(s) 0
Autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty
=== CAN ===
Messages queued 542, received 0, lost 0, boc 0
Longest wait 0ms for reply type 0, peak Tx sync delay 0, free buffers 18 (min 18), ts 301/0/0
Tx timeouts 0,0,301,0,0,241 last cancelled message type 30 dest 127
=== Network ===
Slowest loop: 201.88ms; fastest: 0.08ms
Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0), 0 sessions
HTTP sessions: 1 of 8
- WiFi -
Network state is active
WiFi module is connected to access point 
Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 3
WiFi firmware version 1.25
WiFi MAC address f0:08:d1:02:a1:0b
WiFi Vcc 3.34, reset reason Power up
WiFi flash size 2097152, free heap 27088
WiFi IP address 192.168.0.19
WiFi signal strength -61dBm, mode 802.11n, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
Clock register 00002002
Socket states: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3PL
Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 440
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 600
Drive 4 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 964
Drive 5 runs in reverse, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 576
Drive 6 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 216
6/26/2022, 10:19:07 AM	Valkyrie OK : 
Voltage OK : 23.9
6/26/2022, 10:19:05 AM	Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 1011
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 67
home Z.g
6/26/2022, 10:19:03 AM	Warning: Driver 0 stalled at Z height 300.10
Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 25, pwmScaleAuto 3, pwmOfsAuto 80, pwmGradAuto 18, pos 306
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 24, pwmScaleAuto 2, pwmOfsAuto 72, pwmGradAuto 19, pos 985
after revert back
6/26/2022, 10:19:02 AM	Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 23, pwmScaleAuto 0, pwmOfsAuto 78, pwmGradAuto 17, pos 344
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 20, pwmScaleAuto 0, pwmOfsAuto 74, pwmGradAuto 15, pos 1016
home x
6/26/2022, 10:19:02 AM	Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 866
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 95
start
Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 866
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 95
stall detection setup
lower motor current
6/26/2022, 10:19:00 AM	Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 18, pwmScaleAuto 0, pwmOfsAuto 67, pwmGradAuto 19, pos 600
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 20, pwmScaleAuto 0, pwmOfsAuto 73, pwmGradAuto 17, pos 248
after revert  back
6/26/2022, 10:18:59 AM	Warning: Driver 0 stalled at Z height 300.10
6/26/2022, 10:18:56 AM	lower motor current
Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 18, pwmScaleAuto 0, pwmOfsAuto 72, pwmGradAuto 15, pos 504
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode stealthChop, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, tpwmthrs 10 (937.5 mm/sec), pwmScaleSum 21, pwmScaleAuto 0, pwmOfsAuto 73, pwmGradAuto 16, pos 344
Home Y
6/26/2022, 10:18:55 AM	M32 "0:/gcodes/Body50_0.2mm_PLA__1h44m.gcode"
File 0:/gcodes/Body50_0.2mm_PLA__1h44m.gcode selected for printing
Home All.g 
Home Y
Drive 0 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 504
Drive 1 runs forwards, active low enable, timing fast, mode spreadCycle, ccr 0x00053, toff 3, tblank 0, hstart/hend/hdec 5/0/0, pos 88
stall detection setup
6/26/2022, 10:18:38 AM	after revert back

oliof

if you have stall detection enabled, you may get stall warnings, that's normal. I tend to get them during prints on Z when I do fast Z hops because the sudden stop during those moves also generates back emf.

moth4017

@oliof
thanks, that's interesting to know, ive mainly seen them on Z axis , but have also seen them on X too now and again.

i suppose i could set a new sensitivity (S parameter) at the end of the homing routines .

moth4017

@oliof @dc42

Ok i have noticed this:-
hit the "emergency stop " button and all i run is "max z home. g" Macro as above , but its always motor 0.4 that doesn't move.
if i switch on the printer (mains on) in the config i run the same macro "max z home. g" and its motor 0.4 that doesn't move .

this seems to happen 100% of the time well i did 20 tests and it happened each time.

so here is where its gets a bit odd, i swapped stepper motor wiring 4 and 6 , re did config so the stepper motor order in M584 was in the correct order again , but now its stepper motor 0.6 playing up.
so could this be a software issue as it always seems to be the first stepper in the M584 list , or just coincidence?

fcwilt

@moth4017 said in need Guru on duet 3 mini5 using stall guard/sensor less homing:

No more Gurus out there playing with the Duet 3 mini5 tmc2209

I setup homing via stalling and it worked. Compared to an actual endstop sensor it made quite a thump.

I quickly installed actual endstop sensors.

I don't like thumps.

Frederick

oliof

@moth4017 since you swapped the wiring as well it's hard to say.

moth4017

@fcwilt

I have the x y sensorless homing well just a gentle tap for homing,
the Z homing max also works with a gental tap, but sometimes the motor just stalls and doesnt move.