Variable Fan configuration possible?

TimTom

Hi,

first of all happy new year and stay healthy.

I have a Fan configured for the electronics, controlled by the MCU temperature.

I came along the guide:
https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Connecting_hardware/Temperature_configuring_mcu_temp#firmware-configuration

telling

M308 S2 Y"drivers" A"DRIVERS"  ; configure sensor 2 as temperature warning and overheat flags on the TMC2660 on Duet
M308 S3 Y"mcu-temp" A"MCU" ; configure sensor 3 as on-chip MCU temperature sensor
M950 F2 C"fan2" Q100 ; create fan 2 on pin fan2 and set its frequency
M106 P2 H2:3 L0.15 X1 B0.3 T40:70 ; set fan 2 value

My question is, I'd like to have a variable/gradiant FAN control:

e.g.
30° = Fan 50
35° = Fan 100
40° = Fan 150
50° = Fan 200
60° = Fan 255

I'd like to have less noise when temperature is not critical, but high FAN power when necessary.
Looking up M106 command also did not really help.

Is this possible, if yes how? And may I suggest to add an example for such a configuration in the documentation? (or I could put one in if desired).

rjenkinsgb

From what I can see, the double value T in M106, eg. T40:70, is a gradient range.
eg. It sets the fan threshold and full speed temperatures.

So, T30-60 should give something like the range you want, it kicking on at 30' and full power by 60'C.

Phaedrux

@timtom said in Variable Fan configuration possible?:

less noise

The problem for me when setting a range was that the fan speed changing due to hysteresis was more annoying than just setting a fixed speed. I ended up just setting the fan speed to a fixed speed that wasn't obnoxious and enabling it when either heater was powered. This way the heater mosfets are cooled and the drivers will only really be getting much use during a print anyway.

TimTom

@rjenkinsgb
Thanks a lot for your input, but it's not really answering the question.

T40:70 means the association with the two "Heaters" (drivers warnung and MCU) defined in line 1 and 2

@phaedrux
Well that might be your opinion, but as usually at least for my part, I want to learn this by myself and maybe figure out a setting I can live with?
For me it's super annoying that the fans turn on and off every minute and make a loud noise. I prefer them to gradiantly increase noise.

@All
So I'm still looking for a way to configure a gradiant fan control as described before. The example does not really help.

alankilian

@timtom

I'm not familiar with the object model and all that, but I think you could use daemon.g to write a loop checking the temperature and sending an appropriate fan speed control.

If you look into this, please report your trials here for the rest of us to learn from.

TimTom

@alankilian

grml, hmm ok so no easy way out, ok will try on the weekend and post results

deckingman

@timtom said in Variable Fan configuration possible?:

@rjenkinsgb
Thanks a lot for your input, but it's not really answering the question.

T40:70 means the association with the two "Heaters" (drivers warnung and MCU) defined in line 1 and 2

Err no - that isn't the case.

@All
So I'm still looking for a way to configure a gradiant fan control as described before. The example does not really help.

I think you are getting a bit confused here. The M106 example you have been given does indeed give you the gradient control you seek - I know that for fact because I use it myself. It's also documented here https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/M106.

Quoting from that linked Wiki .....

"In firmware 1.19 and later, the T parameter may be of the form Taaa:bbb where aaa is the temperature at/below which the fan should be fully off and bbb is the temperature at which the fan should be fully on. The PWM will be set proportionally if the temperature is between these limits."...end of quote.

You can also use the L and X parameters in conjunction with the Taaa:bbb for even more granular control. I do just that to eliminate an annoying buzz that I get at 10% fan speed or lower. That is to say I set the temperature range but also use the L parameter such that the fan runs at 20% speed as soon as as the minimum temperature threshold is reached and ramps up to full speed at the maximum temperature threshold, and is off when below the low temperature threshold.

The driver temperature and overheat flags you mention are simply that - i.e. they are binary flags and either on or off. So while you can have have the fan run proportionally with MCU temperature, you can't do the the same for the overheat flags because they are are simply warning flags which give a binary 1 or 0 and not variable temperature measurements in degrees C.

TimTom

@deckingman

Thanks for your input, saved me some time

I just came accross a different issue, maybe you're able to help me with (already reading and trying to understand. Changing the fan to "manual" mode", I figured that I'm only able to set the fan speed to 100% or 0%.

M950 F3 C"out3" ; create fan 2 on pin out4 and set its frequency
M106 P3 S0 H-1 C"My Fan"

Fans are standard 2 wire configurations. Weired is, that the Hotend and Partcooling Fan on out5/6 work just as expected . . .

HW is a Duet 3 Mini 5+

deckingman

@timtom said in Variable Fan configuration possible?:

@deckingman

Thanks for your input, saved me some time

I just came accross a different issue, maybe you're able to help me with (already reading and trying to understand. Changing the fan to "manual" mode", I figured that I'm only able to set the fan speed to 100% or 0%.

M950 F3 C"out3" ; create fan 2 on pin out4 and set its frequency
M106 P3 S0 H-1 C"My Fan"

Fans are standard 2 wire configurations. Weired is, that the Hotend and Partcooling Fan on out5/6 work just as expected . . .

HW is a Duet 3 Mini 5+

Not sure that I fully understand what you mean by ".....I figured that I'm only able to set the fan speed to 100% or 0%". Do you see the fan in the web interface and does it have a slider control? If so, are you saying that the slider only allows for 0 and 100 % speed and that you are unable to set any intermediate speed, or are you saying that you can set the speed but the fan doesn't react to it properly and either runs at full speed or no speed regardless of the demand setting?

TimTom

@deckingman

Thanks again for coming back to me.

The Fan turns up in the Webfrontend. I can set the value between 0 and 100, the fan only turns on, when I set it to 100. (Any value set below 100 e.g. 70,87 or even 99 leave the fan off). Just when I move the slider to 100, it switches on to full blast.

Alex.cr

@timtom

This could mean that your fan doesn’t like to be PWM’d. You can try adjusting the Q value on M950 to find a value that works.

Or it could mean that your fan needs a “blip” to get started. This can be controlled with the B command under M106.

deckingman

@timtom I agree with what @Alex-cr has said. I have some similarly temperamental fans and have found that a really low "Q" value of 10 Hz beats them into submission.

TimTom

@deckingman & @Alex-cr

THAT'S IT!
Stupid fans, got some SUNON 24V, they work more or less reliable with Q10 (making some noise due to the 10 Hz).

They don't turn on on low settings, but with setting the start temperature in M106 to 10°C, I got me expected results:

M950 F2 C"out4" Q10
M106 P2 H2:3 L0.15 X1 B0.3 T10:50 C"Electronics Bay" B0.5

The fans turn slowly in normal operation, providing a nice breeze to the electronics compartment and will speed up with raising temperatures.
There is still a notable difference between 99% and 100%, but that should do it for the moment.

I added some information on https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/M950?revisionid=HEAD, maybe that gets accepted and will help others in future.

Thanks a lot for your support. For the future I'll experiment with different fans, as DUET allows different voltages on out ports. I assume lower voltage fans might perform better as the operating voltage is not so wide spread.

Alex.cr

@timtom
The biggest thing to look for in fans is a note saying "PWM" capable as a spec. Voltage matters less.

TimTom

@alex-cr
Thanks for the input, mostly followed Voron BOM and the fans are 24 Volt, the selection on "easily" available ones in certain dimensions seem limited.

Even though I might ask dummy questions and keep busy, I'm super thankful for the support, the experience I'm gaining is priceless.
I heavily rely on documentation, and while Duet Documentation is not bad, some more guidance and help on the one or other page would shorten troubleshooting!

Alex.cr

@timtom
I am a big fan of my 2.4.
The Voron community has done a good job of putting a lot of components in demand.

deckingman

@timtom Unless fans actually state that they are PWM compatible, it's largely "pot luck" how well they will work. But I haven't yet come across a fan that I can't get to work reasonably well by playing around with PWM frequency (Q value) and the L, X and B parameters.

TimTom

@alex-cr

Yes definitivly, I started with a Tevo Tarantula several years ago, got it working so so.
Still remember my first clogged nozzle (due to bad machinery in hotend) and how long I needed to figure this out. . .

Then I got one of the first Prusa MK3, also here it tooks some iterations until it got that stable to become my workhose since (printed all ABS parts for my Voron with it, in an enclosure).

Now I'm with Voron, beautiful machine.

With each iteration I learned more and more. As I kid I enjoyed Lego Technic, no comparision, what 3D printers bring to the table

even if it's off this topic, do you have some docu/suggestion/information for Z-Level/print start code? - I'll figure out but would appreciate some hints

Alex.cr

@timtom

Sure can! Let me know if you need any explaining. This will need modified to fit your needs but should give you a place to start.

My slicer(Superslicer) start code looks like this:

;voron start code

M104 S180
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature]
G10 P0 S[temperature]  R180;
M116 ; wait for tool temp
G32 ; home and level gantry 


M207 P0 S0.4 R0.0 F3600 Z1.0; firmware retract defaults
M572 D0 S0.05 ;pressure advance for tool 0
M291 P"Cycle Start" S1 T30

M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/nozzle_purge_wipe.g"
M98 P"homez.g"  ; home Z using the home Z file
G1 X175 Y175 Z10 F20000

Homez.g

; homez.g
; called to home the Z axis
;
G90
;G59.1													;select nozzle height sensor coordinate system
;G31 K0 													  ; select nozzle hieght sensor
M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/speed_homing.g"   			  ; Setup low speed & accel
G1 Y335.0 F9000
G1 X230.2
G1 X230.2Y349.5 ; probe location
G91
G1 Z-999 F1000 H1
G1 Z5.0 F6000
G1 Z-999 F150 H1
G90
G1 Z1.35 ;set this number to the difference between the bed and nozzle height sensor 
G92 Z0.0  
;G4 S5

M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/speed_normal.g"   			  ; Setup normal speed & accel
G01 Z20.0 F60000
G54    ;return coordinates to normal
G4 P250

Homeall.g

; homeall.g
; called to home all axes
;

G91 
G54; relative positioning
M561                                                      ; Clear any bed transform
G1 H2 Z10 F2000
M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/speed_homing.g"   			  ; Setup low speed & accel

G1 Y-5 H2 F9000     ; Move away from the endstops
G1 X600 F2400 H1   ; Coarse home X
G1 X-5 F9000
G1 X600 F360 H1 			 ; Coarse home X
G1 X-5 F9000
G1 Y600 H1 F2400  		 ; Coarse home Y
G1 Y-5 F9000     ; Move away from the endstops
G1 Y600 F360 H1  		 ; Fine home Y
G1 Y-5 F9000     ; Move away from the endstops
G90;
M98 P"homez.g"  ; home Z using the home Z file
M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/speed_normal.g"   			  ; Setup normal speed & accel

G1 Z20.0
G1 X100.0Y344.5
;M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/goto_bucket.g"   			  ; Go to park position
G54
;G29 S1 ; load bed map

And my G32/bed.g looks like this:

; bed.g
; Called to perform automatic bed compensation via G32

; If the printer hasn't been homed, home it
if !move.axes[0].homed || !move.axes[1].homed || !move.axes[2].homed
	echo "Homeing"
	G28
else
	M98 P"/sys/homez.g"   			  ; Home Z
  

G54   												      ; normal coordinate system 
M561                                                      ; Clear any bed transform 
;G31 K1 													  ; select height probe 
M401 ;Deploy Probe

G1 X310 Y310 Z15.0 F20000                               ; move to an inital location
M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/speed_homing.g"   			  ; Setup low speed & accel
M290 R0 S0 ; clear babystepping
G90;
echo "Leveling"
M558 H6.0 ;dive height for probing
while iterations <=1                                      ; Do minimum of 2 passes
	G30 P0 X320 Y300 Z-99999
	G30 P1 X320 Y50 Z-99999
	G30 P2 X30 Y50 Z-99999
	G30 P3 X30 Y300 Z-99999 S4

M558 H3.0 ;lower dive height
while move.calibration.initial.deviation >= 0.01         ; perform additional tramming if previous deviation was over 0.01mm 
   if iterations = 5                                      ; Perform 5 checks
      M300 S3000 P500                                     ; Sound alert, required deviation could not be achieved
      abort "!!! ABORTED !!! Failed to achieve < 0.01 deviation within 5 movements. Current deviation is " ^ move.calibration.initial.deviation ^ "mm."
   G30 P0 X320 Y300 Z-99999
   G30 P1 X320 Y50 Z-99999
   G30 P2 X30 Y50 Z-99999
   G30 P3 X30 Y300 Z-99999 S4
 
echo "Gantry deviation of " ^ move.calibration.initial.deviation ^ "mm obtained."
;set global.gantrylevel=1 ; set variable to true
G1 Z{sensors.probes[0].diveHeight+10.0}; lift head

M402     ;Retract probe
M98 P"homez.g"


M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/speed_normal.g"   			  ; Setup normal speed & accel
G1 Z20.0
M98 P"/macros/print_scripts/goto_bucket.g"   			  ; Go to park position
G54
G4 P50
;G29 S1 								; load bed map

TimTom

@alex-cr

Thanks a lot for your config, it helped already.

Two more questions.

How do you adjust Z-height? I followed the guide https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Connecting_hardware/Z_probe_testing and on 0.0 the nozzle is barely touching the bed (paper test). When starting printing the nozzle moves to 0.2 and the extrusion is to high . . .
Seems like I'm missing something in the concept.
How do you handle the two different Z-Sensors (inductive and nozzle tip)? It's still a mystery to me.

Do you prefer inductive or nozzle sensor? Any insights are heavily appeciated!

Variable Fan configuration possible?

Robert J.