Creatbot F430 transformation. Question directly DC42

ffnull

I will clarify. The other day, directly in your store, I bought a full set of accessories to replace my relatives. Level sensor, two temperature sensors, main board and screen, as well as laser filament levels. I plan to throw out my own electronics that are buggy and put yours. But I do not want to get it again, the same problems with the sensor.

What i have right now. Its 8-bit with custom source closed marlin.

dc42

@ffnull, the IR sensor is rated to 85C. Be aware that it works well on some surfaces and not well on others. In particular, it only works well with a glass bed if the glass is not coated with glue stick, hair spray etc. and it has a uniformly coloured (preferably matt black, definitely not mirror) surface underneath it.

Veti

@ffnull said in Creatbot F430 transformation. Question directly DC42:

The main problem at the moment is the fact that the native level sensor (Origina BLTouch) when the camera warms up goes into an endless error until you cool it. Is

i assume that you mean the hotend and not a camera.
from the pictures the bltouch is quite a bit away from the hotend. so the bltouch should not heat up.
see if adjusting the grub screw in the bltouch helps.

ffnull

@veti bltouch overgeating from bed, and camera chamber

ffnull

@dc42 Thank you very much for the answer. The original sensor overheats from the heating table and the camera warms up. The surface is black glossy carbon. Under carbon black glass

Veti

@ffnull said in Creatbot F430 transformation. Question directly DC42:

Its 8-bit with custom source closed marlin.

closed source marlin is against the gpl. You can demand the source and they have to provide it.

oliof

@Veti they mean the heated chamber (camera == chamber).

Veti

you could make this out of abs
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3303618
it works like a bltouch

Maestro

ffnull, I think you may have a defective sensor, or possibly a wiring issue. I have an F430 using the stock sensor and I always do the bed mesh with the chamber and bed at temp; I have not had issues with the sensor even when the chamber is at 70c and the bed at 120c.

Note that the F430 has a converter for the gantry wiring (small board bottom left of your image) that--to the best I can figure--ramps up voltages for transmission over the ribbon cable, then steps down at the extruders. So, there are a lot of electronics between the main board and the actual bed sensor which could be causing trouble at temperature.

I am also about to start a Duet conversion on the 430, along with some motion redesign (to get Y and Z steppers out of the chamber). I agree; great hardware, horrific electronics!

altair0319

@maestro just curious, what advantage you will have by doing a duet conversion? My 430 is on the way and I happen to have a duet 2 board in hand.

Maestro

@altair0319

Many things are gained on the F430 by the conversion. For one, quiet stepper drivers, which the Createbot's definitely were not, at least at the time I purchased it.

Also, general configurability. You can't do much with the default firmware. If you're going to tinker, you will be annoyed quickly.

I have converted almost everything on my machine; I essentially used the (very nice) steel box frame, and little else. All the steppers are in new locations, new gantry, new electronics (first Duet 2 wifi, now finishing up 3 6HC install), watercooling, etc., etc. If you want to do these things you will not stay on the original mainboard, as you can't get into the firmware. If you don't want to get into the machine so much, the only thing you'll really gain is a much quieter machine.

taxidude

@maestro

would like to upgrade mine F430 with duett 3, have the board already here, would like to know if it is possible to get some fotos of your conversion and if you have a wirering plan.

thx

stephan

Maestro

@taxidude

Here are a few images of mine as it sits now. Remaining to be done is install a berd-air pump in the second spool bay, once I've completed the hotend I'm currently working on which will actually use a berd system.

I don't have a detailed wiring plan, but aside from the original z-stop, y-stop, and enclosure-heater leads, literally all of the original wiring is gone. So, couldn't give you a plug-and-play conversion plan from the stock wiring.

PanelDue 5 fits the front panel with enlargement of the hole. To keep it out of the enclosure heat, I ran a sheet metal panel behind it and put a fan next to it, so fan pulls in cool air, passes it across the back of the paneldue, then exhausts it back out front through the hole to the left of the panel. The black shroud then directs that air over the blue heatsink, on the back of which is the enclosure-illumination LED board.

Very happy with it. Solid aluminum bed could hit 200C if needed (though currently thermal-fused at 192). Hotend can do 500 (E3D V6 on a Matrix) and enclosure can go to 135 once the berd-air is complete and part-cooling fan gone (then limited by belt ratings).

If you want to PM me I'm happy to talk any details you're interested in.

alt text

taxidude

@maestro

thank you for the fotos unfortunately i cant see them only a sign like the german "einfahrt verboten" in grey.

i have started with modifying, what already is working

the LED Sripe, the fans for both SSR and the Mainboard fan. they are connected to 0.out 7-9

the thermistors of bed, chamber and both extruders connected to t0-t3 for the board and the chamber i get the right themperatur values displayed, the extruder thermistors show worng value (75 celsius) maybe a config issue.

currently i am trying to get the bed and the chamber working. my plan is to use 0.out 5 and 6 for that. currently config is not working as expected. while swiching the heater on / off i cant measure any difference on the out port.

Maestro

@taxidude
I think I have fixed the photo issue?

Have you probed the input coming to the board for the extruder temps? I'm no longer using them, but I do not believe the the original temperature probes were thermistors. Additionally, the step-up/down boards allowing the ribbon cable to the tool end may be doing some transformations. I would put an ohm-meter on the Duet-end leads for these and see if you actually get the expected resistance ranges, as it's possible that those boards are doing something goofy and the stock firmware was compensating.

Edit; I pulled out the old gantry and put a meter on the temperature sensors; 2ohm at room temp. So, some kind of thermocouple, not thermistors.

codfish124

@maestro very nice looking work.

someday ill go through mine and clean it up a bit more.

20210326_230625844_iOS.heic 20220118_130542466_iOS.heic 20220114_231353954_iOS.heic 20220113_201749533_iOS.heic

brs

Hi @Maestro ,

I'm new to this forum, found it while searching info on the f430.

Would you mind sharing information on your build-plate? I've changed the heater and insulated it but have been wondering if going to a metal plate would be the best, long term, route. Printing ULTEM.

Your other mods are really interesting to me. Do you happen to have a bog or other site with more details?

Thank You!

-brs

Maestro

@brs

I really like the metal bed, but I've not had a lot of experience with other types. So, honestly, I would suggest reading other comparisons on the topic, as it's not F430-specific and I'm not an expert. I like the dead-steady temperatures it achieves, and it heats up plenty quick (1200W Keenovo heater). Downside is it stays hot for a loooong time. Mine is insulated on the bottom with welding blanket material, and if it's heated over 100C it stays hot enough to burn me for probably a solid hour. Ultimately, I prefer the temperature stability over other bed options.

I don't have a build thread or blog on it, but maybe I'll start one here when I get some time, as this thread is quite old and there seems to be some interest.

dc42

@maestro have you considered using a large blower fan or two to cool the bed down?

brs

Thanks @maestro for the reply. Once I got looking at the bed a bit more a solution revealed it's self. I had insulated my glas bed as well based upon Keenovo's recommendation. It help considerably but my heater has gone belly-up. The metal bed will be installed when the new heater shows up. Long wait.

In the mean time I decided to go whole-hog and install a Duet3 along with a slice mosquito magna hot end. They arrived today. This gets me back to the forum to beg any tidbits of technical information on the F430. The big one right now is needing the technical specs on the XYZ Stepper motors. Things like max current etc. Does anyone have that info? Thanks in advance.