Duet3D PCB delta printer effector sneak preview

loic

@loic:

i really love the design and the light weight
now it will be great to have piezo sensor available for this effector with nimble it could be a beast combo

The nozzle contact sensor is built in, so no need for a piezo. At least one of our beta testers is looking at mounting a Nimble on it.

thanks great
but does it will be better than a simple micro switch accuracy?
does it piezo or other way sensor?

Rommie

@loic:

@dc42:

@loic:

i really love the design and the light weight
now it will be great to have piezo sensor available for this effector with nimble it could be a beast combo

The nozzle contact sensor is built in, so no need for a piezo. At least one of our beta testers is looking at mounting a Nimble on it.

thanks great
but does it will be better than a simple micro switch accuracy?
does it piezo or other way sensor?

From what I have seen of mesh bed comp between piezo and dc effector it wins hands down, I know doug has had experience with piezo and dc effector and he can't praise it enough. Getting to 0.002 dev on his tests

loic

do you have an idea about the cost for a kit?
i will buy one for my delta xxl project +nimble

dc42

@loic:

thanks great
but does it will be better than a simple micro switch accuracy?
does it piezo or other way sensor?

Yes it will work better than a microswitch. I don't expect there to be any significant difference between the reproducibility of our effector and that of a piezo mounted in the hot end, if both are set up correctly.

dc42

@loic:

do you have an idea about the cost for a kit?
i will buy one for my delta xxl project +nimble

I think we will publish the prices tomorrow or Tuesday.

Rommie

@dc42:

@loic:

do you have an idea about the cost for a kit?
i will buy one for my delta xxl project +nimble

I think we will publish the prices tomorrow or Tuesday.

I will be buying one no matter what lol

DjDemonD

Yes we can do 0.002 probing standard deviation too. If you're talking about 0.002 delta calibration deviation, then you'll need a very precise machine as well as a very precise probe, but the two go hand in hand. So far when you get to these levels of precision no previous probing tech, really enabled us to see whether the printer needed tweaking or the probe was just too vague. Now we can see the difference.

To be fair the sensing modality between our system and T3P3/DC's is very similar technology. I am quite sure DC and Tony will have done a lot of work on making it strong, reliable and above all reasonable to manufacture. The key question is cost. Given the accuracy/operation is likely to be very similar.

I think the market is quite big enough for two nozzle contact sensors. If you are using the PCB effector then you'll be using the nozzle contact sensor which comes with it too. If you are not then our sensors are an option.

But if you still think you can compete with this type of nozzle contact tech with an IR, inductive, capacitative, BL touch, deployable probes etc, then think again.

Dougal1957

Simon I have achieved a delta calibration this morning of 0.003 with the PCB effector.

DjDemonD

The best I'm managing is 0.007 regularly I've seen lower but this is a lot to do with the mechanical precision of the machine, the probes are accurate enough.

So well done. It's a great result.

DjDemonD

How does your setup do with Russ's probing accuracy test? https://www.duet3d.com/forum/thread.php?id=1330&p=1

Dougal1957

mine have been 0.006-0.007 until this morning haven't up;oaded the stuff to russ's test to be fair but once I get fully sorted I will upload them

Dougal1957

36 point test gives
2:12:37 PMBed probe heights: -0.015 -0.025 -0.020 -0.018 -0.020 -0.015 -0.025 -0.030 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.030 -0.020 -0.025 -0.020 -0.020 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.020 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025 -0.025, mean -0.023, deviation from mean 0.003
Done printing file
2:10:59 PMM32 Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode.txt
File Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode.txt selected for printing

!00 point move test gives
2:17:49 PMBed probe heights: -0.020 -0.012 -0.022 -0.022 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.022 -0.022 -0.027 -0.022 -0.022 -0.017 -0.022 -0.017 -0.027 -0.017 -0.022 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.017 -0.005, mean -0.022, deviation from mean 0.005
Done printing file
2:13:37 PMM32 Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_moving_100-100_probe_0-0_25_Point_p_values_.gcode.txt
File Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_moving_100-100_probe_0-0_25_Point_p_values_.gcode.txt selected for printing

loic

@dc42:

@loic:

do you have an idea about the cost for a kit?
i will buy one for my delta xxl project +nimble

I think we will publish the prices tomorrow or Tuesday.

thanks dc42
djd: yes you option is very great for non pcb option
i plan to install one on my original anycubic delta
on my smoothie and xl delta project it will be pcb for a clean design and i really like that we can use zesty nimble on it(the best combo so..light pcb+ the best extruder for delta)
someone know how is made zesty nimble?does it print parts or mould plastic?
other thing dc42.. i have ordered for my carriage made in europe this
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1Pcs-Reprap-Aluminum-Alloy-Delta-Kossel-Slide-M3-M4-Tackle-20-15mm-20-20mm-Effector-Kossel/32814331048.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.RtfTrZ
20*15mm version..so does it possible to order one with the right size hole directly?

Dougal1957

@loic:

@dc42:

@loic:

do you have an idea about the cost for a kit?
i will buy one for my delta xxl project +nimble

I think we will publish the prices tomorrow or Tuesday.

thanks dc42
djd: yes you option is very great for non pcb option
i plan to install one on my original anycubic delta
on my smoothie and xl delta project it will be pcb for a clean design and i really like that we can use zesty nimble on it(the best combo so..light pcb+ the best extruder for delta)
someone know how is made zesty nimble?does it print parts or mould plastic?
other thing dc42.. i have ordered for my carriage made in europe this
https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1Pcs-Reprap-Aluminum-Alloy-Delta-Kossel-Slide-M3-M4-Tackle-20-15mm-20-20mm-Effector-Kossel/32814331048.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.RtfTrZ
20*15mm version..so does it possible to order one with the right size hole directly?

You could always print a jig with the holes in the right place and drill a second row of holes in the carriage adaptors.

As for the Nimble the plastic parts are printed using SLS Systems by an outside print house and are done at 0.05mm layer sizes in Nylon12 material

Doug

Dougal1957

Second set of runs
2:22:20 PMBed probe heights: -0.010 -0.015 -0.015 -0.020 -0.010 -0.025 -0.010 -0.015 -0.015 -0.020 -0.015 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.010 -0.020 -0.020 -0.015 -0.025 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.025 -0.020 -0.023 -0.020 -0.015 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020 -0.020, mean -0.018, deviation from mean 0.004
Done printing file
2:20:43 PMM32 Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode.txt
File Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode.txt selected for printing

2:32:30 PMBed probe heights: -0.015 -0.022 -0.027 -0.022 -0.022 -0.022 -0.027 -0.022 -0.022 -0.027 -0.027 -0.022 -0.032 -0.022 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.022 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.027 -0.005, mean -0.024, deviation from mean 0.005
Done printing file
2:28:18 PMM32 Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_moving_100-100_probe_0-0_25_Point_p_values_.gcode.txt
File Cal pieces ABS/Probe_Testing_moving_100-100_probe_0-0_25_Point_p_values_.gcode.txt selected for printing

dc42

The reproducibility you get will depend in part on the microstepping you select and how friction-free your machine is. The resolution of the probe can't be better than the microstep resolution, and will be worse if friction causes the effector not to move on each microstep - which is more likely if you use smaller microsteps.

There are the Z resolutions you get with typical configurations:

1.8deg motors, 20 tooth GT2 pulleys = 12.5um
1.8deg motors, 16 tooth GT2 pulleys = 10um
0.9deg motors, 20 tooth GT2 pulleys = 6.25um
0.9deg motors, 16 tooth GT2 pulleys = 5um

If you increase microstepping to x32 then you might halve the resolution, but only if friction is low enough and you have enough motor current.

Dougal1957

I have 0.9 deg motors 16 tooth pullys and have 16 microstepping with interpolation set so I am pretty pleased with how it is coming out (Haydn Mag ball arms Delrin ends)

loic

do you think you will have black color pcb instead bleu(it s for better looking )

need an advice from expert
i would like to use 550mm length of horizontal OpenBeam (triangle)
and 1200mm for vertical
for you what will be the best size for length arm
i can t arrive to know what size i need to order on haydn s shop

Dougal1957

I use 500 mm Horizontals and 450mm arms which are a bit longer than is actually need so maybe 480 or so would be ok for you.

I can't see the pcb's being in anything other than Blue to be honest and the Beta hotends are also anodised Blue whether the production ones will be the same is to be seen

loic

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Sgv4eIkjU1ZpmKWrO_SRboigdhDsiBE8veC2RlNeG0s/edit?copiedFromTrash#gid=0

on this calculator i can see for my setup 440mm..
what is you verticale size?