Thoughts on this sliding hot end mount please.
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I am quite keen to see if it works and to hear how you solve any issues. I have an IR probe surplus now and the idea of making it essentially an indirect probe works, its a very accurate device but as a direct sensor doesn't maximise the benefits of nozzle based probing. That being said this has been quite delta focused as the benefits of nozzle based probing are slightly less for corexy/cartesian as effector tilt isnt an issue.
Look at the new UM3 its using the nozzle to press onto spring loaded glass with some sort of sensor under the glass that detects when the glass is pressed by the nozzle. That's what you and I are doing with these ideas, making indirect probes.
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Ian I like the idea of a easily swappable tool mount that seats firmly when fully seated. Potentially this can be adapted for tool changing systems in the future
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Ian I like the idea of a easily swappable tool mount that seats firmly when fully seated. Potentially this can be adapted for tool changing systems in the future
Hi Tony,
Yes if the sliding arrangement doesn't work out for homing, I'll print a simple cam action clamp or some such that will hold the hot end rigidly against it's seat. So whatever happens, I'll still be able to do a tool less hot end swap. I'm designing the carriage so that if the "sliding nozzle homing thing" doesn't work out, I'll be able to mount the mini height sensor "conventionally". It'll still be a longish way from the nozzle and I'll still have to make adjustments depending on how the 3dlac affects the reflectivity of the glass, but at least I'll be able to do some sort of homing. (I like contingency plans).
Ian
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Hi Ian….I had a similar idea for the hot end mount for my machine. I added an adjustment screw to fine tune the tip offset from the bed. I just used a U shape slot to slide the hotend mount into with threaded brass inserts for the screws.
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That looks neat. For various reasons, (fan brackets and so forth) I'll have to print my carriage part on it's back, so the reason I went for dovetails rather than slots is that they have sloping sides and I won't have to worry about any printed overhangs.
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What a coincidence, I have just finished this first draft.
Simple quick release mechanism for the Nimble.The idea for the back is that the intersecting prisms locate the plate both horizontally and vertically. Quick little wedge snap at the front. Same as used on a lot of camera tripods.
(edit added explain) This idea was requested a couple of days ago by a customer (thanks Bob) who wanted a cam lock type of attachment. I had trouble seeing how it could work until I went to take some photo's. The base plate of my camera tripod has a lockplate with a cam. So I used the concept.
The base plate will lock down the hot end (E3D V6) in this case using a simple cam. The cam and the wedge shape at the back forces the base down onto the hot end and clamps it.
(A bit like the French cleat system, Ian. Have a lot of my woodworking tools hanging that way. So why it took me so long to click?)
The cam is something that can easily be adapted to Ian's slide. Unlatch to measure, latch to print.
In my configuration, I might be able to fit the peizo sensor in the base plate. Hmm, base plate is a bit too small for that as it is now. Still in CAD so that is an easy fix.
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Guys. If we have some movement in the Z mount, such as my sliding arrangement why can't we just use a metal to metal contact as a switch? In my case I'm thinking something like a pogo pin fixed to the carriage as as one side of the switch, and a flat piece of copper or some such fixed to the hot end mount as the other side of the switch. The switch would be normally open, then when the hot end assembly is pushed up by the nozzle making contact with the bed, the pogo pin touches the copper, and completes the circuit. It seems so simple that there must be something I haven't thought about so let me know what that is.
Ian
Edit. Both the hot end mount and the carriage are plastic parts so no insulation would be needed. -
One side of the switch would need to be able to move slightly to allow for the slow down at the moment it contacts a sprung loaded pin would probably do the job.
Another option may be a hall effect type sensor ?but I am not sure what the repeatability would be with one of them
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A simple microswitch such as those used on an endstop is probably the easiest. They are rated for a certain number of switch actions where as a probe into copper will have an unknown number of triggers before issues with oxide build up or deformation make it unreliable
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Hi Doug,
That's why I was thinking Pogo pins - because they are spring loaded. You can buy gold plated ones for a couple of quid or 100 "ordinary" ones off Ebay for the same money. That makes a very cheap sensor.
It's too cheap and simple - there must be something I've missed….........
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A simple microswitch such as those used on an endstop is probably the easiest. They are rated for a certain number of switch actions where as a probe into copper will have an unknown number of triggers before issues with oxide build up or deformation make it unreliable
Hi Tony. I didn't think micro switches were all that repeatable or accurate enough??
I can buy Gold plated Pogo pins for a couple of quid and I have some gold plated spade terminals that I could recycle so that would take care of the Oxidisation issues.
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Rather than a microswitch which needs too much movement to trigger, and therefore makes the whole assembly wobbly (or has strong springs and needs to hit the build plate with excessive force). Have a flag on the hotend mount and fix a height-adjustable opto endstop to the carriage. The hotend assembly will only need to move maybe 0.25mm to trigger (still a long way off the 0.01mm of the piezo/ir probe). Then it's a case of chosing the right springs, for nice light triggers with minimal nozzle wobble.
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Yes, plan A is to utilise the mini height sensor that I have - effectively as an Opto end stop. I've taken care of the "wobble" - well there might be 0.1mm or so in X or Y when the hot end is lifted off it's seat but that will have a negligible effect on Z I'd have thought (I may yet be proved wrong of course). When the hot end is fully seated, there is no discernable movement (at least with the mock ups I've printed).
Plan B if that doesn't work is to use the mini height sensor as I do now but it'll be a long way from the nozzle and will be affected (as it is now) buy my use of 3Dlac on the glass build plate.
What I'm talking about is plan C. Similar to plan A but instead of using the mini height sensor above the hot end, effectively just 2 electrically conductive pieces of metal that come together to make a circuit. One fixed to the carriage, the other fixed to the (sliding) hot end mount. No springy switches, no signal conditioning, no amplifiers or any other circuitry involved. Assuming there are no mechanical issues, why won't that work?
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No reason in theory, and I suspect in practice it will work, with a bit of fettling it should be accurate and the assembly should be firm, and the probing force should be low enough to give a trigger without being too violent.
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I've decided to take a modular approach. I've incorporated a smaller dovetail slot, above the hot end slot but inset so that the hot end can still be slid out of the top. Then with the right adaptor, I'll be able to fit either the mini height sensor, or a simple contact probe, or some other type of switch, without having to reprint the entire carriage plate. We'll see what works….......
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@CaLviNx:
Instead of a Mircoswitch. What about a linear slide potentiometer that Increases/decreases resistance as it's moved. Properly attached it could act in the same way as the ir probe but being mechanically activated instead.
It could be a nice test to hook a linear pot to one of dc42s ir boards replacing the ir sensors.
Yes but it's all a bit complicated. DC's probe is specifically designed to sense the top surface of a sheet of glass. I could use it above the mount and it'll probably work (as would a linear pot) but it's still a bit overkill and complicated.
What it all comes down to is that we just need a digital switch that gets triggered when the nozzle is a certain distance from the build plate. It doesn't matter what that distance is (as long as it's not too big), because that is the Z offset that we put into our G31. Any form of analogue input is going to have to be converted to a digital on/off somehow because that's the only thing that processors can deal with. So whether it's hall effect, inductive, capacitive or whatever, the output is going to have to be converted to a digital on/off somewhere along the line.
So, if you think about it, with a (spring loaded) sliding mount all you need is 2 contacts, one fixed to the mount and one fixed to the carriage spaced say 1 or 2 mm apart. When they come together they complete a circuit and when they are not touching, the circuit is open. That's about as digital as it gets and so simple. It the event, I'm having a real hard time finding suitable contacts - they really need to be non- oxidising so probably gold plated.
Of course, repeatability is the main thing and that will come down to how well the mount sits on it's seat or returns to it's seat after it'd been lifted off. With plastic parts, this could be difficult. I've got something printed that feels good but then my fingers aren't sensitive enough to detect 0.1mm of "non-repeatability" so I'll just have to build it and try it. The fall back is to clamp the mount rigidly and use DCs probe under the nozzle as it is now. But as I've said before, this isn't ideal with a Diamond hot end because I simply can't get the probe close to he nozzle and also, my use of 3dlac on the glass means that the offset keeps changing due to (I suspect) variable reflectivity.
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For anyone that's interested, I now have a mechanically functioning but otherwise untested mount. The tool free swapping works a treat. With the part on it's seat and held in place with the springs, I can't detect any Z wobble by hand (whether it prints OK is another thing of course).
To save my typing, I've made a short 2 1/2 minute video that shows how it all goes together (and comes apart). You can view it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6RoyDuUg7s
The untested part is the sliding, nozzle probing for Z homing feature. With the part off it's seat, there might be 0.1 or 0.2mm of movement but it's in Y and that shouldn't affect Z homing (I hope). I gave up on the idea of just having two contacts but found a positioning switch that might work. It's a Metrol switch (Japanese) but I bought it from Misumi EU. It has 2mm stroke but the switch point is claimed to be at 0.3mm with repeatability of 0.005mm. I don't really care about how much movement there is, as long as the switch point is repeatable.
If the Metrol switch doesn't work out, I have an adaptor that will take DCs mini height sensor (fitted above the hot end). If that doesn't work out either, I'll modify the mount by doing away with the spring retainers and replacing them with a cam action lock to hold it all firmly together then just use the IR sensor as "normal". I have already fitted a second mini height sensor in a more conventional position under the nozzle on grooved mounts so that it can be slid up out of the way initially. It's a fair way from the nozzle but the best I can do due to the bulk of the Diamond hot end. That will allow me to home the printer and print the parts I need to do any further modifications.
Whatever happens, I'll be able to swap hot ends fairly easily and, with the redesigned carriages, my Y travel will have increased from320mm to 370mm and X travel from 348mm to 390mm, and I'll have saved some weight too.
Ian -
I like it. Great work!
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That is a nice design Ian. I am really interested to see what repeatability you get from the switch/movement. Also if there is any perceivable movement in the head introduced by the sliding mechanism (although I doubt there will be as it looks constrained only to Z.
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That is a nice design Ian. I am really interested to see what repeatability you get from the switch/movement. Also if there is any perceivable movement in the head introduced by the sliding mechanism (although I doubt there will be as it looks constrained only to Z.
Hi Tony and thanks. I'm fairly confident about the switch (it cost enough!) but whether the entire mechanism will be repeatable enough is another matter - just have to install it and see. With the mount on it's seat and held there by the springs, I can't detect any "wobble" by hand. With it lifted off it's seat there is a little bit of play - I'd guess one or two tenths of a mm front to back (in Y). So if it pans out, the bit of front to back "play" will only be present while homing and hopefully, that won't have a significant impact on the Z height. During normal printing, the mount will be back on it's tapered seat so there should be no Z wobble to affect print quality. - That's the theory anyway. As I've said, if it doesn't work out I'll do away with the springs altogether, clamp the mount in place and home "normally". I'll have got tool free and quick changeability out of the re-design if nothing else.
It took me about 6 or 7 attempts to get the clearances right. I had it just about perfect but then changed to that gold filament and it all became sloppy. I ended up using zero clearance. That is to say, in OpenScad I simply subtracted the male part from the female part to form the female housing, which should have made an interference fit. ln practice, with a smear of silicone grease, the parts fit perfectly - providing I use Gold for the male part and Black for the female part. If I use Black for both parts, I have to have 0.1 to 0.2mm clearance at the sides to get the correct fit. That of course leads to another concern as to how long the thing will last before wear becomes an issue. Hopefully, as it it'll only slide a mm or 2 and then only while homing, it should last for quite a while before I have print replacements. More "suck it and see".
Ian
