Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help

droftarts

@fulg @carcamerarig I've set up my printer (basically something like a Prusa i3 bedslinger) with settings as close to yours as possible. The basic motor settings are:

; Drives
M569 P0.0 S1 V0                                     ; physical drive 0.0 goes forwards
M569 P0.1 S0 V0                                     ; physical drive 0.1 goes forwards
M569 P0.2 S1 V0                                     ; physical drive 0.2 goes forwards
M569 P0.3 S0 V0                                     ; physical drive 0.3 goes forwards
M569 P0.4 S1 V0                                     ; physical drive 0.3 goes forwards
M584 X0.0 Y0.1 Z0.2:0.4 E0.3                              ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                            ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z800.00 E743.50                  ; set steps per mm
M566 X100.00 Y100.00 Z12.00 E300.00                ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z600.00 E3600.00            ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X2000.00 Y2000.00 Z20.00 E600.00                ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1000 Y1000 Z800 E450 I30                          ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                               ; Set idle timeout

I ran a quick test of 100 iterations at full speed (F18000 or 300mm/s) going from X0 Y0 to X200 to Y200 and back. No problems. I then printed (air print, no nozzle or bed heating, no extrusion, but all motors moving) @carcamerarig gcode file, which is a cube and a cylinder. Travel moves are at 80mm/s, where I think you were seeing the problem, but these were okay for me, too.

One thing I've noticed; both of you have your M566 (max instantaneous speed change/jerk) set very low on X and Y. I usually have mine set at the default from the configuration tool, which I regard as pretty conservative, which is:
M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z12.00 E300.00 (ignore Z and E)
fulg: M566 X100 Y100 Z30 E4000
carcamerarig: M566 X240.00 Y240.00 Z25.00 E600.00 P1
The effect of this is that it may slow down on curves. The sinusoidal fill seemed slow on the air print, but otherwise shouldn't particularly matter.

My only other current observation is that I have a v0.5 Mini 5+. What are your board versions?

I'll should have a little time over the coming days to run some more tests, to try and get it to skip. Any suggestions welcome!

Ian

carcamerarig

@droftarts
Not sure on board version I have a Board ID: Z9NZN-A296U-D65J0-40KM4-LY03Z-ZPQPD can you tell from that? Purchased direct from Roland in Jan 21.

In my SBC setup I was at M566 X600 Y600 Ill try at 900 now and report back but I fear it will make it worse...

carcamerarig

@droftarts Can you give me your AirPrint gcode file?

droftarts

@carcamerarig said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

@droftarts Can you give me your AirPrint gcode file?

Sorry, away from machine now. I just commented out the heater commands in the Gcode file, sent M302 P1 to allow cold extrusion, and unloaded filament. It just fits on my 200x200 bed!

Ian

droftarts

@carcamerarig said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

Not sure on board version

It’s printed on the back of the PCB.

Ian

fulg

@droftarts My Mini5+ was a v1.0. I say "was" because it is no longer in my hands, I sent it back for warranty exchange for an unrelated problem. I am getting a replacement in a few days.

The speeds are quite low in order to try and work around this issue, my usual speeds were 6x higher (M566 X600 Y600 Z60 E8000). I saw it with print speeds of 40mm/s and travel speeds of 100mm/s and those very slow instant speeds. Similarly my motor currents are higher than what I usually run.

I see that you are running 1.8° motors (80 steps/mm!), as far as I know everyone affected here is running 0.9° motors.

Cheers,
Ben.

droftarts

@fulg said in Missing Steps - Cant Print SpreadCycle StealthChop tuning help:

I see that you are running 1.8° motors

Yes, you’re quite right, I wanted to get a baseline, though @carcamerarig reported the same issue with 1.8 motors. I’ll swap X and Y for 0.9 motors the first chance I have. I don’t have any LDO motors yet, so will have to be Wantai and E3D. Thanks for the info!

Ian

carcamerarig

@droftarts

Yep its worse with a higher jerk level but at least you can hear it on the videos now as its been difficult to show/hear with the fans running... It literally shakes everything in and on my cabinet.
While setup on SBC mode I found out one or more of the bigger bangs broke my Y motor holder (cracked it), its replaced now with a spare I had but it can't be good for the printer or the bearings...

A mild travel bang

Infill mini bangs

carcamerarig

@droftarts I can still send mine to you, I thought as we discussed my issue is not unique to the 0.9's to rule those out?

fulg

@carcamerarig I am hearing the same bang on my machine when printing as your first video, then there is a rather large layer shift, ruining the print in progress.

I thought you also had 0.9° motors since that was brought up earlier in the thread (sorry for assuming!). So I won't bother installing my old 1.8° motors, maintenance is never fun but it's worse if you do it for no good reason.

I still have my old Duet2+Duex5 boards, those worked great on the same printer!

fulg

@droftarts My motors are from OMC StepperOnline, 17HM19-2004S, running at 24V of course. I have some LDO 0.9° HT steppers on hand now but I have not yet installed them.

droftarts

@fulg I’m using a 12V PSU, so will need to swap that for 24V. Thanks for reminding me!

Ian

carcamerarig

@fulg Correct I was running the LDO 0.9's when I set up the duet for the 1st time, I changed them to the 0.9's from the 1.8's that shipped with the machine with the promise of higher resolution, ive switched back to the original 1.8's to test if its unique to the motors as other have success with the 1.8's. Mine issue is happening on both 0.9 and 1.8.

SputnikOC3d

Any type of an update on this issue ? TMC have any input and perhaps narrow down the testing options ?

droftarts

@sputnikoc3d unfortunately, due to Easter holidays and me being a parent, I haven’t made any progress. If you can share your settings that trigger the problem, that would be helpful.

When I get the chance, one of the first things I’m going to look at is using low jerk settings with high acceleration. To my mind, this is a bad combination. @carcamerarig @fulg do you still get bangs if you set X and Y jerk and acceleration to:

M566 X900.00 Y900.00
M201 X500.00 Y500.00

(This is the default from the configuration tool.)

Ian

carcamerarig

@droftarts those videos I just posted were at the default Jerk settings, I darent go any higher in fear of breaking printed parts again.

carcamerarig

@droftarts can you get me a 6hc, duet 2 sent out or something I can use in the meantime. It’s turned the printer into a paper weight...

fulg

@droftarts I only set low jerk to try and work around this issue. If you are somehow saying that low jerk and high accel could cause this, IMO this means RRF is broken (at least on Mini5+) because while it may not be ideal, this always worked before with previous Duet boards.

One thing that was suggested to me (outside of this forum) is that I am not doing M17 and G4 P100 before moving motors the first time, reading the docs this seems to say that the required stealthChop/spreadCycle calibration of the TMC2209 will not occur. I would have expected RRF to do this implicitly, but perhaps it does and I am misunderstanding.

There are several fixes that have been made recently that specifically target the Duet3 mini, maybe 3.3b3 will help resolve this.

carcamerarig

@fulg I’m sure @dc42 said it needed to be a bit longer like 130ms 150ms suggested.

Argo

Low jerk and medium to high acceleration is basically the standard setup for cartesian and Core XY printers. Also input shaper do not like high jerk values to function properly. Klipper limits "Jerk" (they use a different name for it) to 5 mm/s when using input shapers. This should not cause any trouble.

StealthChop initialization or calibration.
This is what I put into my config.g (bottom part):

; StealthCop calibration
M17
G4 P150
G1 X1 Y1 Z1
G4 S2
M84 ; disable motors

I'm using 1.8 LDO motors with my Mini 5+. No bonging, no issues. Prints 24/7 at the moment.

@carcamerarig has the "bang" issue with both 0.9 LDOs and 1.8 LDOs and @fulg has the bang issues with 0.9 motors but has not tested it with 1.8 LDOs so far.

With 0.9 LDOs I needed more current and could not print as fast but never had any "bang" issues during movement.
Imo the issue with vibrations and noise that TMC2209 + 0.9 motors are having is a different chapter / issue.

The question I'm beginning to ask myself: Can a hardware issue on the Mini5+ cause the "bang" issue?
I can reproduce those little hiccups (bangs) by enabling hybrid mode (V parameter) and set the threshold setting at a too high speed (like 100+ mm/s). The switch from StealthChop to SpreadCycle is then causing a "bang" sound which then also often leads to layer shifts.
BUT I checked the config of @carcamerarig (which is basically mine) which does not use hybrid mode (V0) so we can rule that out.

So maybe it's a hardware issue / problem with the board itself?