Unsolved CoreXY movement calibration
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50 to 60 Hz
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@Danal 50-60 Hz over what span of belt? Shorter spans will "ring" at higher frequencies...
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@mrehorstdmd said in CoreXY movement calibration:
@Danal 50-60 Hz over what span of belt? Shorter spans will "ring" at higher frequencies...
True. The people who told me to do that did not specify... I did it over the longest span I could find, on a corexy that has about a 350x350 bed, and corresponding frame.
It seems really tight to me. Could be a spurious data point. The printer does print well, though.
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I would think there would be some spec on tension based on elongation of the belt. If it were something like 1%, over a 300 mm span, a 2mm pitch GT2 belt should have 148.5 teeth (or is the belt made so that when it is ideally tensioned the pitch will be 2 mm???)
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@marnog When tensioning belts by ear, the lower E string of a bass guitar is 41.204 Hz, the A is 55 Hz, and the D is 73.416 Hz. For example sounds, see/hear here https://www.fender.com/online-guitar-tuner/bass-guitar-tuning/ or https://www.musicca.com/bass-guitar. Frequencies are here https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
But as @mrehorstdmd rightly says, the frequency the belt rings at will depend on the span of the plucked 'string'. Same with 'deviation', ie pushing the belt with particular pressure and measuring how far it moves laterally. The belts (old-school 5mm white T2.5) on my Cartesian machine seem to be: X, 400mm span, G flat first octave (46.25 Hz); on Y, 320mm span, F second octave (87.31 Hz). X does feel a fair bit looser (should probably tighten it!).
A quick googling brings up a few options for measuring belt tension, of which this seems to be the best/most relevant, and has options for measuring both by frequency and by deflection: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/how-to-measure-synchronous-toothed-belt-tension/
Using their frequency formula of Static Tension = 4 x Hz pow 2 x L(m) pow 2 (ignoring belt weight and width as they are the same and I don't have numbers for them), I get
T(X) = 4 * 46.25 pow 2 * 0.4 pow 2 = 1369
T(Y) = 4 * 87.31 pow 2 * 0.32 pow 2 = 3122Or perhaps to put it another way, to match my Y axis I should tighten my X to:
sqr ( 3122 / (4 * 0.4 pow 2) ) = 69.84 Hz = C#/D flat second octaveThat sounds about right. Maybe. Or it could all be nonsense! Anyone care to calculate their belt tension? Maybe a new thread...
You should be okay if the span you are 'twanging' is the same length on both belts, though, and then it's a matter of getting them tight enough to stop layer shifting.
Ian
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@mrehorstdmd said in CoreXY movement calibration:
I would think there would be some spec on tension based on elongation of the belt. If it were something like 1%, over a 300 mm span, a 2mm pitch GT2 belt should have 148.5 teeth (or is the belt made so that when it is ideally tensioned the pitch will be 2 mm???)
I like this thought. This would be interesting to know.
@droftarts said in CoreXY movement calibration:
A quick googling brings up a few options for measuring belt tension, of which this seems to be the best/most relevant, and has options for measuring both by frequency and by deflection: https://www.linearmotiontips.com/how-to-measure-synchronous-toothed-belt-tension/
Using their frequency formula of Static Tension = 4 x Hz pow 2 x L(m) pow 2 (ignoring belt weight and width as they are the same and I don't have numbers for them), I get
T(X) = 4 * 46.25 pow 2 * 0.4 pow 2 = 1369
T(Y) = 4 * 87.31 pow 2 * 0.32 pow 2 = 3122Or perhaps to put it another way, to match my Y axis I should tighten my X to:
sqr ( 3122 / (4 * 0.4 pow 2) ) = 69.84 Hz = C#/D flat second octaveThat sounds about right. Maybe. Or it could all be nonsense! Anyone care to calculate their belt tension? Maybe a new thread...
You should be okay if the span you are 'twanging' is the same length on both belts, though, and then it's a matter of getting them tight enough to stop layer shifting.
Ian
This is interesting. I'm going to try this. The calculation can also be tested with a single tensioned belt, and the different sections of it between pulleys and idlers.
Thanks Ian! -
@marnog said in CoreXY movement calibration:
Hi Frederick,
I have both leadscrews running from 1 stepper - trying to avoid inconsistencies between the leadscrews. The setup is very very similar to an FT-5.
How would you check the Z axis?Without actually having that print in-hand it's hard to be sure. In some places it looks like it is bulging out on both sides at the same place. Is that correct or just a issue with trying to judge by the photo?
Frederick
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@fcwilt said in CoreXY movement calibration:
@marnog said in CoreXY movement calibration:
Hi Frederick,
I have both leadscrews running from 1 stepper - trying to avoid inconsistencies between the leadscrews. The setup is very very similar to an FT-5.
How would you check the Z axis?Without actually having that print in-hand it's hard to be sure. In some places it looks like it is bulging out on both sides at the same place. Is that correct or just a issue with trying to judge by the photo?
Frederick
I understand what you mean. The model is not perfectly cylindrical, so it's hard to see in the photo. And the model has 4 prongs/pillars/posts/towers and I can't tell if the bulging deviates in the same direction on all 4 upright parts.
But is does look like the bulging is to a side (a bulge with an indentation on the opposite site). Not a squishing, or Michelin Man effect. -
@marnog said in CoreXY movement calibration:
But is does look like the bulging is to a side (a bulge with an indentation on the opposite site). Not a squishing, or Michelin Man effect.
Then I would suspect some problem with the X/Y system causing layer shifting. I had that but some work with changing belt tensions (mostly trial and error) took care of the problem.
Frederick
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What are your Z screws setting on? It looks to me like inconsistencies in your Z axis causing a lean of the whole part. It looks like it gets worse as the part gets taller. I had similar problems when my Z screws were coupled directly to the stepper shafts, which had endplay, and inconsistent springiness that could not be controlled. As one screw advanced less than the other, the bed tilted and the part leaned just a bit causing a very similar affect. I think it happened lower in the print as well, but the error was amplified as the part got taller, and seemed to gradually appear rather than start late in the print.
Do your screws rest in a bearing meant for thrust load? It looks pretty good from the pics, but I cant tell whats at the bottom end of the screw.
(Mine ended up on pin roller thrust bearings, but my beds get to weigh 40-50 lbs empty)
