Ideas for a successor of DWC
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Yes, I didn't mean a true "blank" slate, default views would obviously be a good idea.
By never needing to fix, I meant, the layout, not the actual code ;).
But honestly, it sounds like you're overcomplicating things. Unless you're planning on reinventing how g-code works and the completely serial nature of it's communications, I don't see the point in what you're proposing.
Frameworks and other technology libraries, methodologies, approaches, tools, etc. are all very shiney, but none of them are silver bullets.
I understand passion projects, but I feel you're risking passion over product.
I think we'd all rather see a UI that works as we want before it gets completely redesigned from the ground up.
Just the mention of Duet 3 as a motivation for any of this kinda pisses me off because 2 isn't finished and while the current UI is leaps and bounds beyond the traditional printer, the UX is actually not that different in terms of how many clicks and menus you have to go through to do things until you eventually macro-ize everything, which is a long iterative process in and of itself.
You've come a long way in incorporating the administration of the printer in a central place, no Arduino studio needed, no compiling, no some stuff on the scroll wheel, other stuff in octoprint, etc., that's awesome, but KISS and get us happy before chasing the shiney.
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@gnydick I don't think this has too much to do with passion over functionality, I just don't want to repeat mistakes I made when I designed my initial verison of DWC. Eventually I will need to start the development of another web interface that will work well with the Duet 2 and of course at the same time I need to start considering different techniques for the Duet 3 because it will be using a different subsystem. Even after the launch the Duet 2 will remain a solid product of the Duet3D project range so this is really nothing you should be worried about.
Migrating the current web interface to newer frameworks and JS techniques would be no big deal but the current layout/design of the web interface is not perfect, so I'd like to get a discussion going before I implement everything again from scratch or start porting over stuff. This is just the way I hope I can keep things simple enough and the community happy.
To be fair I did not maintain DWC regularly over the past year and I only spent a relatively small fraction of my time improving it, however due to better collaboration with the Duet3D project I am going to invest more time in it. That is why I am trying to come up with a good concept that will surely require some work and yet provide the best compromise I can achieve.
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Hi,
first of all, I think DWC is a remarkable puzzle piece in the 3d printing world, which made having a dedicated Control unit on the Printer completely obsolete for me. My printer only has its power button and nothing else (it's sitting directly next to my PC though). Before I worked with Duet, I was constantly searching for "the perfect" UI, considering everything from 12864-style displays with encoder to full fledged touchscreens. So this shows how much of a game changer this well done web interface was for me personally.
That being said, this use case is not for everyone. To answer your question and offer my 2 cents:
I think DWC might have potential to be the truly universal UI for remote and non-remote operation of the printer. Therefore beyond the screen size adapting to smaller (smartphone) and bigger (desktop) screens, there should be different "modes" that you can set up. I'm thinking "printer display" mode which offers at least the functionality that classical 12864-style controllers (or Paneldue
) offer, and "admin" mode like the current DWC UI, offering full access to the printers configuration, files etc. "Printer Display" mode should adapt to smartphones or tablets, maybe offering more tactile UI elements (e.g. knobs for temperature adjustment, if possible), which leaves the user to choose if they want to use their smartphone, or fix a tablet or RPI display to the printer itself (offering the possibility to even add mouse and keyboard there).I can't really offer any feedback on features I find missing in DWC, because for me personally there are none. Maybe one thing (which would apply to "printer display" and "admin" mode both):
My Anycubic Photon (DLP printer) uses a Chitu board and touchscreen, which shows a little representation of the model in the slicer. It's a screenshot of the slicer window, which makes it difficult to implement in our FDM world as I know of no slicer that offers this atm, but maybe there is a way to have a little graphical representation of the model in the Gcode file list?HTH, Niklas
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Re-sizable controls. I might want a fairly control dense screen on my RPi 480X320 screen with a trackball, or I might want only a few key buttons if I'm using the same in a 5" touchscreen. Kind of different if I'm displaying on a 4k monitor.
I commonly use an RPi with a 1280X720 7" screen, my phone (5" 1080X1920 or 1920X1080 screen) or my media PC (40" 4k screen) with DWC now.
The phone is the most maddening, but the one that I am most likely to use for babystepping adjustments.
For me thought the biggest thing that I'd like to see is user levels. One level where you can print pre-stored files, one level where you can upload macros and files, and one where you can update firmware, and main configuration. (Let the kids print another object, daily use, and admin privs.) Yeah, I'm aware that with "Gcode everywhere" uploading a Gcode file can do whatever mucking with the configuration files can do, but at least it can be reset with a power down. (I'm a network admin for my day job. Proper user sandboxing is something that I like.)
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@supraguy
agree, user levels authentication is something we really need -
It would be interesting if the new version of DWC could intrinsically manage a farm of printers. I guess the web servers would have to somehow communicate with one another. I guess you would go to the appropriate URL for any DWC instance, and in some part of the UI you could see the status of the other printers on the network, and quickly jump to their DWC instance.
I guess that's actually not very important, because one could just have the multiple instances open in tabs, but it could streamline the process and cause less confusion for users who are not as intimate with the setup as the admin.
*not actually a robot
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@bot Nice idea, I think somebody requested this before, too. Would anyone mind if this was only an option when running on the local PC, though? At the moment DWC already allows an IP to be specified if it detects it is running on localhost so I figure it would be a good extension to allow the same for multiple boards. Besides, that way DWC could avoid getting confused by stored DWC settings on the machine(s) that it connects to.
Duet software engineer
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@chrishamm another option could be a print farm mode when you connect to one Duet and have a setup option mode to scallops for other duets on the local network. Then the user can select the live instances of DWC they want to control.
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@chrishamm However you and others find best to implement, I'd be fine with. You've done well so far, I have no reason to doubt the solution you come up with.
I guess it could actually be a separate application/web server that could be run on the same network, from a PC or micro computer, and configured to access whichever printers is needed. Perhaps it could interface with the DWC instances to handle user privileges in an elegant way (ie, the credentials are passed through from the farm interface to the DWC instance, though perhaps this is a major security worst-practice) .
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@bot said in Ideas for a successor of DWC:
It would be interesting if the new version of DWC could intrinsically manage a farm of printers.
I'd love to see this built in. Meanwhile:
https://github.com/DanalEstes/MultiDuetWebMonitor
I guess the web servers would have to somehow communicate with one another.
Not really. Chris already has a discovery protocol. Once any printer provided the UI and script to a browser, that browser could find all the other printers.
I guess you would go to the appropriate URL for any DWC instance, and in some part of the UI you could see the status of the other printers on the network, and quickly jump to their DWC instance.
Exactly. If Chris wants to do that.
I guess that's actually not very important, because one could just have the multiple instances open in tabs, but it could streamline the process and cause less confusion for users who are not as intimate with the setup as the admin.
Tabs hide each other. Having "arms length" color codes on "one pane of glass" was a design goal for multiduetwebmonitor.
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Idea:
Show commands that are registered but not executed yet due to the printer been busy!
For example, my end gcode commands the bed to go to 50C and wait, then play the buzzer so I know when the bed is cool enough to get parts out of it.
While I was waiting I sent some commands (heat the bed to 100C and start a simulation). As expected it will execute those commands but there is no indication that they are at the "queue" for execution...
Another suggestion is to show the Macro's list (like the one that exists in Machine Control) besides the gcode console.
Thanks!
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@brunofporto Thanks for the proposal, I'll consider it! Perhaps it would make sense to disable the G-code inputs temporarily until the firmware indicates a response?
Meanwhile I've made some more progress and got a big part of the backend working. By that I mean the responsive grid that will allow you to customise the pages as you like. If anyone wants to play with it, check out the demo sandbox here. The source code of the component can be found here even though it is still a first version.
Nevertheless I guess it will give you an idea about what the upcoming UI designer will look like. Because the original vue-grid-layout component isn't nearly as flexible as I hoped I had to add a whole bunch of features but I'm quite happy with it so far. And don't be surprised about the poor looks of the demo page, that is just a sandbox with plain HTML and JavaScript
Duet software engineer
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@chrishamm said in Ideas for a successor of DWC:
Perhaps it would make sense to disable the G-code inputs temporarily until the firmware indicates a response?
Show them at the terminal with a different color, marking it as halted, until executed than the color changes to indicate it was executed.
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Not sure if you’re familiar with AngularJS, but it’s an awesome architecture. Whatever you come up with, I’d like to see the core functions as disconnected from the UI as possible (Angular does great with this). This allows UI changes very easily. Especially with the move to SBCs on the Duet 3, a main-stream web architecture would be great.
The SBC shift also opens up a large potential for server based operations. I dare to even suggest it, but a ‘Duet Reliability Initative” sounds feasible. Essentially have the web interface / SBC send information to a central server about errors, failed / cancelled prints, config setup / firmware feature use, bed compensation deviations, heater Calibrations, laser filament results, etc. You could do a lot of cool stuff with that data. Map out the most successful filaments / printer configurations, Recommend heater calibration changes, auto-notify errors for error message improvements, Of course have the opt-in / out options for privacy.
Just some thoughts.
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@brunofporto Or perhaps even a "loading" icon in the right corner of the G-code input, I think Element-UI provides some nice templates for that. I'll check it out.
@TLAS I looked into Angular and Ember before I started development with Vue, see here for a comparison. Separation of view and model and reusability are the main goals of the upcoming DWC rewrite and this already worked quite decently in the config tool rewrite. AFAIK this idea is a core concept of Angular too.
A Duet Reliability Initative could be an option but this would introduce privacy aspects which I didn't want to touch before. However I expect the new UI will be a lot more robust anyway and I'm still considering the introduction of unit tests too.
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@chrishamm who remembers all the hate M$ received when releasing Windows 8 in 2012... however much sense it makes to build a desktop OS around this kind of UI is debatable at best, imo it's still a very good design approach and I'm very excited to play around with this once it takes shape.
what's it gonna be called, btw? DWC2? DDWC (dynamic duet web Control)?
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@sonderzug Since it will be a NodeJS app it will be possible to turn it into desktop app will without much trouble, I think. I'll call it DWC2, which is why there is no DWC 2.0 release yet.
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@chrishamm said in Ideas for a successor of DWC:
By that I mean the responsive grid that will allow you to customise the pages as you like
Idea: Be able to SAVE, and maybe in a way that is shareable, the customization.
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@brunofporto Yep, that is going to be possible - OEMs will need this feature, too. I doubt it will be feasible to implement dynamic menus right in the first DWC2 version but I'll keep an eye on it while porting everything over to the new framework.
I've got the first draft of the file structure ready but I decided to stop using Element-UI because it violates so many design rules that would enable theme support (e.g. colour keys in layout/HTML files instead of CSS). Instead I will focus on Vuetify, iziToast and vue-chartjs. Vuetify also provides light+dark themes out of the box and I'm sure many users will want to see that when upgrading to a newer DWC version.
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One thing:
When I send a command from the top "send" area there is no indication that it was sent or executed!!! If at least the text box was cleared was a nice indication. But it does not even do that
So sometimes I execute more than once the same command.So another suggestion is to always have clues that something was executed! Like a color quick change at a Macro's button holding it like that until it finishes execution, for example, the text box been cleaned after pressing enter and the queued indicator mentioned earlier.
