High temperature 3d printer
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Greetings,
we are planning on making a high temperature IDEX 3d printer.
Because the printer will have a fairly large build volume, thus enabling big prints of expensive materials such as ULTEM, PEKK,..
closed loop system is of significant importance to us. Initially we looked towards ClearPath SDSK servos, which (as far we understand) have "internal" encoders.
In case of lost steps would they be able to correct themselves, and how would the board respond, given the fact that servos don't give "feedback" back to the board?
As Duet now also offers 1HCL expansion boards, which have encoder inputs, would it be wiser to look in the direction of a closed loop stepper?
Is there currently any way to control a "true closed loop" servo system (with encoder inputs) with one of Duets boards?What are some practical use cases for raspberry pi 4 as SBC (assuming you can find one
) ?In an interview with @DC42, he mentioned that Duet is also developing new closed loop products, could you give some insight approximately when they will be released?
If we power the control board with a 24V power supply, than voltage on 3x2 pin JST VH connectors is also 24V?
Best regards
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@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
In case of lost steps would they be able to correct themselves, and how would the board respond, given the fact that servos don't give "feedback" back to the board?
Some external closed stepper/servo drivers, or motors with built in control, have a "fault" or equivalent output which the Duet can accept. You can then configure what to do (generally pause and alert the user).
@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
As Duet now also offers 1HCL expansion boards, which have encoder inputs, would it be wiser to look in the direction of a closed loop stepper?
Is there currently any way to control a "true closed loop" servo system (with encoder inputs) with one of Duets boards?The 1HCLs control is "true closed loop", i.e it takes an encoder input. it is designed for a stepper motor as opposed to other types of motors that are more frequently used in servo motors.
@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
What are some practical use cases for raspberry pi 4 as SBC (assuming you can find one ) ?
- Connect a camera
- Connect an HDMI touch screen
- Write custom plugins for remote monitoring
basically it provides a platform for more flexible networking, UI and other potential applications that you may way to use. That said stand alone mode also has networking, UI etc so it depends on your requirements.
@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
new closed loop products, could you give some insight approximately when they will be released?
Motors with integrated control are planned and we are aiming for the first of the range for Q2 this year. more details will follow in the coming weeks.
@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
If we power the control board with a 24V power supply, than voltage on 3x2 pin JST VH connectors is also 24V?
if you mean the OUT1, OUT2, OUT3 connectors on the mainboard 6HC then yes. These switch VIN.
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@T3P3Tony
Thank you for your prompt response.
After some consideration we came up with the following design .Duet 3 6HC as main board, connected to it:
4xNema 17
Probably 2x Dyzedesign Xtruder pro (would they be compatibale with TMC 2160a drivers), otherwise we will use 2x 1LC boards+3x 1HCL with one of these motors:
Could you please verifiy that one of these motors are compatibale with 1HCL`s encoder imputs.
-https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/p-series-nema-23-closed-loop-stepper-motor-1-2nm-169-97oz-in-with-electromagnetic-brake-23e1kbk20-12+3x 1xd board with Clearpath SDSK servos (not sure which model yet)
Additionaly, we plan to regulate 2 fans with the following PWM controller. Would it be possible to regulate fan speed via Duet 3 6hc with RS 485 interface over the break out expanison board?
https://www.goto-automation.com/si/products/frekvencni-pretvorniki/frekvencni-pretvorniki-1-fazni-230-vac/frekvencni-pretvornik-ls-electric-s100-1-fazni-0-75kw-230v-i -
@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
Dyzedesign Xtruder pro (would they be compatibale with TMC 2160a drivers)
Yes those Dyze extruders would work with the 6HC drivers but see below about the 6XD
@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
+3x 1HCL with one of these motors:
Could you please verifiy that one of these motors are compatibale with 1HCL`s encoder imputs.
-https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/p-series-nema-23-closed-loop-stepper-motor-1-2nm-169-97oz-in-with-electromagnetic-brake-23e1kbk20-12
-https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/p-series-nema-24-closed-loop-stepper-motor-3nm-424-92oz-in-with-electromagnetic-brake-24e1kbk20-30
-https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/p-series-nema-34-closed-loop-stepper-motor-4-5nm-637-38oz-in-with-electromagnetic-brake-34e1kbk50-45Those motors can be driven by the 1HCL, the encoders are unspecified for two of the 3. The one where the encoder is specified is 1000PPR/4000CPR. if you want to use the once with the unspecified encoders, ensure they are at least 1000PPR/4000CPR. higher resolution encoders would be better. It is a good idea to check the motor specifications against you usecase using this calculator:
https://www.reprapfirmware.org/emf.html
As the inductance goes up your max speed drops for a given voltage. the 1HCL can run up to 48V.@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
+3x 1xd board with Clearpath SDSK servos (not sure which model yet)
I would consider the overall design an potentially go for a 6XD + 2 x toolboards ins tead of the 6HC + 3x 1XDs
https://docs.duet3d.com/Duet3D_hardware/Duet_3_family/Duet_3_Mainboard_6XD_Hardware_Overview
This will be lower cost and will allow higher step rates for the clearpaths than the 1XD.@Orionm42 said in High temperature 3d printer:
Additionaly, we plan to regulate 2 fans with the following PWM controller. Would it be possible to regulate fan speed via Duet 3 6hc with RS 485 interface over the break out expanison board?
https://www.goto-automation.com/si/products/frekvencni-pretvorniki/frekvencni-pretvorniki-1-fazni-230-vac/frekvencni-pretvornik-ls-electric-s100-1-fazni-0-75kw-230v-iWhat fans are you controlling? its unlikely that we will add support for an RS485 controlled Inverter in the near term. can you use something that takes a PWM input?
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Thank you for your response,
we plan on using 3 clearpath servo motors for XY motion (cartesian IDEX kinematics), and 3 steppers with encoders along the Z-axis. We aren't yet sure about using servos along the Z-axis, as we haven't found an example of someone doing it, however, we're discussing it with Teknic. Additionally we need 4 steppers for automatic filament changing + 2 for extruders.
If we use servos for all axis', than we would use the following boards
-6XD
-Duet 3 mini 5+ (if needed more steppers in the future, could we also use Mini 2+ expansion board?)
-2x 1LC (for extruders)Could you please verify if my understanding of the systems is correct:
- If a stepper motor encoder detects a deviation, the board would send a correction.
- If a servo motor encoder detects a deviation, it sends an error message to the main board.
- Is there a way for sdsk servo to correct themselves while operating?
What are some pros/cons of using servos - over steppers with encoders?
We need 2 fans for air circulation in the heated oven. Due to a relatively large volume of the heated chamber, requiring big fans, we need external PWM controllers. Is there a way to control external pwm controllers via duet?
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@Orionm42 If you used clearpaths for all axes you could use the 6XD for the 6 servos, otherwise 1HCLs for 3 closed loop steppers and the 6XD for the clearpaths. For the 4 filament steppers then using the mini5+ as an expansion board would work, assuming the stepper motors you want to use match the drivers. yes you can add the mini2+. 2x1LCs for the extruders.
A closed loop stepper and closed loop servo works broadly the same way when looking at the 1HCL. We are running the stepper like a servo motor with a lot of poles. A fault is only raised, in both cases, when the position error exceeds a certain threshold. The question specifically about sdsk in better directed at Teknic.
It depends on the external PWM conroller. if you have one that accepts input signals that would work.
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What is the correct way to connect SDSK motors to a Duet 3 6XD controller, and which pins should go where? Thanks
