CoreXE, will it work? Any thoughts? is it even worth it.
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Hi, I just was wondering if anyone here knows about this.
Basically imagine a CoreXY with the Y axis driven like a cartesian and the top belt path being continuous belts while the bottom is connected to my carriage.
The Idea is that the top belt path will drive my extruder gears and i'll have a remote drive that doesn't use pricey and finnicky remote shafts. Best of both worlds!
I'm making a budget tool changer and I'm debating going this route and even using a clutch system to use the same motor for locking my tools (the dock's pins will push the gear back, disengage them with the extruder, engage them with the twist lock bar's gears, basically like a car, expect instead of friction i'll use gear teeth since I can accurately "remember" the position I left the gear in
I googled a lot, the only actual attempt done was a very badly built printer that squeaked a ton and they didn't properly even show their results.
also more important question:
With Orbiters and Sherpa mini's and even 50g nema 14 steppers available (tho I think that's going too far?) is this worth it? because keep in mind i'm saving 100g. do you think i'll see a big difference?anyone with an orbiter that upgraded from bowden can tell me how much speed they could gain (without ghosting)
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@amythebun Watch this to the end - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqlP5ar3LkE&ab_channel=MirageC There's your answer to how big the difference is.
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@commie Thanks for your reply
However Mirage doesn't compare realistic print speeds and has a printer with servos which makes things very different, and the video is 360g~. I'd also love to use CF for my printer but those stuff doesn't expand under heat unlike steel and causes issues with 85c~ enclosures needed for PCtho tbh I thing I realized that 100g is still a lot, You don't get any usable prints even from a printer that expensive at those speeds, that's what I don't like about those "speed competitions" (nothing wrong with them, just not useful for the average audience) and input shaping specially at those accels causes a lot of smoothing.
any ideas on whether a belt might cause issues for such a system?
I wanna try this but it's probably 500g of plastic that'll go to waste and my entire printer's frame will be redesigned if it doesn't work probably
i wish I knew an average user with say a voron who tried this. or a jubilee, tho jubilee is far more rigid (in theory) than what i'm aiming for!
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@amythebun For the record, he took servos off, I think I heard it in one of his latest videos. Anyway, the point of the video was to show what accels he could reach before and after weight reduction.
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@commie oh that makes sense, I just wonder about IRL differences of 70g of weigh.
any ideas if belts would cause extrusion issues? I don't see why tbh, but I thought I ask.
one issue with my idea is that i'd need machines/laser cut gears because 3dprinting might create oval gears and cause issues, then again voron used those printed pulleys for a long time.
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Worth it is a very subjective term. One basic thing those people trying to make their printers very fast is that the easiest way to remove vibrations is to make your frame heavier. Just by adding enough mass to the frame you can make a print head of several kg move at 1000mm/sec.
Just ask essentium. Or pnp machines.
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@amythebun there was a discussion about a similar concept here:
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/25228/add-extruder-axis-to-kinematics-matrix/6 -
@roiki11 frame weigh is a small portion of what adds up from what i know, then again i'm speaking from experience and aren't an engineer.
I've realized that the linear guides and plastic printed parts that flex under the inertia of the components being thrown around are usually the biggest bottlenecks. reduced weight reduces the forces on these components! but i'm just wondering if 70g is worth so many idlers and all that.
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@t3p3tony Thank! sadly none of them actually tried it, it remained at theory.
and I'm confused about the kinematics talk, my idea would basically behave like a Cartesian, it'd not need any special calculations!
EDIT: oh crap i just realized as i was staring at my drawings, this isn't cartesian, the X axis moves when you move y.... Woops! YEAH i don't think this is a good idea anymore as somebody would have to make the code for it! and i'm not good enough at math/coding to do this myself yet! -
@amythebun said in CoreXE, will it work? Any thoughts? is it even worth it.:
this isn't cartesian, the X axis moves when you move y.... Woops! YEAH i don't think this is a good idea anymore as somebody would have to make the code for it! and i'm not good enough at math/coding to do this myself yet!
There are new possibilites to configure those x-y movements (by defining a matrix which defines how they are connected)*), so no new kinematics are needed. E could be used as normal axis, but the problem with E is, E uses special things like pressure advance, which are not included in the code for "normal" axes.
'*) documented here: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/M669#Section_Parameters_for_Cartesian_CoreXY_CoreXZ_CoreXYU_CoreXYUV_MarkForged_kinematics_RRF_2_03_and_later_only in the examples with the 1s and 0s.
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@joergs5 said in CoreXE, will it work? Any thoughts? is it even worth it.:
@amythebun said in CoreXE, will it work? Any thoughts? is it even worth it.:
this isn't cartesian, the X axis moves when you move y.... Woops! YEAH i don't think this is a good idea anymore as somebody would have to make the code for it! and i'm not good enough at math/coding to do this myself yet!
There are new possibilites to configure those x-y movements (by defining a matrix which defines how they are connected)*), so no new kinematics are needed. E could be used as normal axis, but the problem with E is, E uses special things like pressure advance, which are not included in the code for "normal" axes.
'*) documented here: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/M669#Section_Parameters_for_Cartesian_CoreXY_CoreXZ_CoreXYU_CoreXYUV_MarkForged_kinematics_RRF_2_03_and_later_only in the examples with the 1s and 0s.
yeah honestly after having that realization i realized, this isn't worth it, i'm going for plain markforged, 70g isn't worth the effort!
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@amythebun I saw your tool changer, it's interesting work!
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@joergs5 aww thanks
which one the magnetic or the twist?this one is for my "final" version, i'm building an entire new printer from scratch, and it'll be built to ASMBL and it's built for tool changing from the start
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@amythebun the magnetic. I saw and read your github and the hackaday blog. I followed Jubilee's discord and want to assemble it at the tip of a robot arm.
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@joergs5 said in CoreXE, will it work? Any thoughts? is it even worth it.:
@amythebun the magnetic. I saw and read your github and the hackaday blog. I followed Jubilee's discord and want to assemble it at the tip of a robot arm.
Oooh that's awesome ^_^ I wish you luck. Others have told me that magnetic spheres are strangely way more expensive/uncommon outside of iran, if you ever need, I can design a version for you without the spherical magnets!
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@amythebun thank you for your kind offer, but in germany buying spherical magnets are no problem.
