Well this is something I haven't seen before
-
Hi,
I am now at the point where I can print on the machine which is newly equipped with a 3 stepper, belt driven Z axis setup.
Here is the first print.
I think I know what is going on but am not quite sure.
It's kind of a neat effect though.
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits, a custom MarkForged style, a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY from kit and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.6
-
my guess would be a bad bearing or belt rubbing against the side of a pulley or idler
-
@fcwilt Lovely! My best guess from looking at the pic, is that you have raised ridges so there was probably some movement in X and/or Y as the Z height changed. Some sort of eccentricity in whatever is acting as linear guide for the Z axis?
-
they probably match the pitch of your Z screws, indicating some sort of platform movement
-
@jay_s_uk said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
they probably match the pitch of your Z screws, indicating some sort of platform movement
He's using a belt driven axis
............the machine which is newly equipped with a 3 stepper, belt driven Z axis setup.
-
you might want to check https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/14607/slant-lines too
-
@arhi said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
you might want to check https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/14607/slant-lines too
Excellent - thanks for the link.
Frederick
-
play with microstepping, use less microstepping ... on my setup the problem was that motor's microstepping was very inprecise, reducing microstepping / changing motor helped
-
@arhi said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
play with microstepping, use less microstepping ... on my setup the problem was that motor's microstepping was very inprecise, reducing microstepping / changing motor helped
I know the folks at Zesty are struggling with the current Nimble (v3 I think) because it has issues and they are trying to fix them.
It happens that I am using a Nimble but it is an older unit - v1.2.
As a test perhaps I need to install an extruder right on the hotend mount to determine if the Nimble is the cause.
Reading those posts in the link you provided has given me a number of things to try.
Thanks much.
Frederick
-
@fcwilt it can easily be nimble
-
An entirely different approach to think about it:
Is it a single wall print with something like a gyroid infill? -
@arhi said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
@fcwilt it can easily be nimble
I hope by fitting an extruder to the gantry I will be able to verify that.
The first print I posted was done at a layer height of 0.20.
These two were done at 0.15 and 0.10 - the appearance is quite different.
Frederick
-
I originally believed the issue is with layer height but then I tried same height but different extrusion speed (different print speed) and that's what made it different for me. I only had the issue with the combination of G5 (similar to zesty, supposedly better, higher gear ratio, better cable) and Mellow (PRC clone of mosquito hotend). Replacing mellow with e3dv6 and problem was gone, replacing G5 with BMG and problem was gone, but combo G5 and Mellow and I had the slanted lines, more or less pronounced depending on the print speed
-
Thanks for the additional information.
It seems the problems we have with our printers tend to be somewhat complex and not lending themselves to simple solutions.
Part of the fun I suppose.
Frederick
-
@fcwilt well I don't have it any more
- I removed the mellow from my printer, the original mosquito is purchased, arrived and sitting in usa waiting for someone to bring it here when they travel back to this middle of nowhere
- I removed the G5 from my printer and mounted the old dual flex3drive (I used dual flex3drive with hexagon hotends for year, it's what zesty nimble was designed from, and then I printed 2x G5 to test how the new design works but switched back to old dual setup that works awesome)
so I don't have any issues any more
... now, my toolchanger from e3d is sitting half assembled since january waiting for me to get my hand back in the operational state so I can finish assembling it ... and I expect whole new set of troubles when that happens as I will experiment with new hotends and new drives there (G5 again, hemera, mosquito... I have some of my own designs in the drawer for super high volume printing that are not tested yet... ) but till then..One thing I think I understood here is
G5+Mellow = problem
G5+E3Dv6 = OKThe difference mellow vs v6 is mellow need more force to extrude filament so it's possible G5 twists and bends and allow gears to not mesh ideally when high pressure is required. When I attach mellow on the dual flex3drive the rpoblem is not there but dual flex3drive is much "heavier design" so much stronger. Zesty is, like G5, a flimzy, bendy, twisty thing so it behaves more less the same with a difference that it has lower gear ratio than G5 so the pattern will be at different frequency compared to G5.
This is of course a total guesswork and might be totally off but makes sense to me
-
@arhi said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
This is of course a total guesswork and might be totally off but makes sense to me
But it's educated guess work - that's the best kind.
Fortunately I only print functional parts so minor surface imperfections are not an issue.
I really like the idea behind the Nimble. Hopefully Zesty will get things sorted out on what is likely to be "version 4".
I've got a FlexDrive unit in a box somewhere BUT I think it may be a G5.
Thanks for your input - it really has been a help.
Frederick
-
But it's educated guess work - that's the best kind.
yeah ... but knowing how many times I was totally off ..Fortunately I only print functional parts so minor surface imperfections are not an issue.
same here, but some issues I really hate to have even if they don't affect what I do... like repeating patterns
.. they always show something is wrongI really like the idea behind the Nimble. Hopefully Zesty will get things sorted out on what is likely to be "version 4".
I've got a FlexDrive unit in a box somewhere BUT I think it may be a G5.
I personally dislike zn 'cause of their behavior, not 'cause of the device... device's major issue is low print speed and low power due to missunderstanding of the fd they were basing their design on. I had a lot of issues with G5 that has nothing to do with this thread, it would just out of nowhere strip the filament and stop extruding, and the guy behind it was helping me solve that but I was not able to continue (personal crap) so we let it sit in the drawer till I'm able to test more..
G5 is the small & light (bit lighter than zn)
previous versions were bigger, the dual I use:
old single (heavier than G5 and ZN but much sturdier)
all f3d uses the same gearing inside (I only have 2 sets of gears, so I use them in different cases, all cases f3d make are fdm printable so easy to experiment) and I have slant lines only with G5 + Mellow
-
@arhi said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
I personally dislike zn 'cause of their behavior, not 'cause of the device... device's major issue is low print speed and low power due to missunderstanding of the fd they were basing their design on.
Low speed? Please define low speed - in your world.
And I have no idea how "low power" applies - the power to do what?
And what does the "fd" refer to?
Thanks.
Frederick
-
@fcwilt said in Well this is something I haven't seen before:
I really don't want to make this into fd vs zn flame... I have both, don't really use them any more at all cause both have issues
Low speed? Please define low speed - in your world.
I can drive 3mm filament trough fd (flex3drive, old, not G5, having issues with G5 that are not resolved yet so can't reliably do anything with it attm) 300mm/sec, 0.6mm layer height, 0.7mm extrusion width trough 0.8mm nozzle easy. With 1.75mm filament I can do more but don't have a frame that will not vibrate itself apart if I go faster. I could not do even 1/4 of that with zn, actually reliably not even 1/5 of that.... in some "ordinary" terms, going .2mm layer .4mm nozzle, .48mm extrusion width ZN was for me reliable up to 50mm/sec and fd up to mechanical limitations of the frame - 300mm/sec
And I have no idea how "low power" applies - the power to do what?
power to push/pull filament, pull from spool trough a long ptfe tube, push into nozzle at high speed with high precision and reliability. I pull filament sometimes trough almost 6 meters of ptfe cable from the dry box, no matter how much ptfe is oversized and slippery it's a drag, especially with those 3.6 or 5kg spools on the other end
... I'm designing the new system for the toolchanger where the secondary extruder's will pull the filament from the box and maintain slack for the main extruder to not have to deal with that based on the principle old teartime up was doing... will share, once I finish it -
Sounds like you might be doing things that most of us can only dream about.
For me printing at 90 mm/sec is "fast".
Thanks.
Frederick
