Bimodal layer shift

[spudaddict]

@Phaedrux With the belts off I could not detect any binding - but that could change under belt tension. During one print I did grab the Y bridge and apply considerable rotational pressure to try to force a layer shift. It continued to print fine. Is there anything you have seen or tried to help prove out a binding issue?

[spudaddict]

@NitroFreak I pulled both stepper motors in my initial troubleshooting and verified they are solid. I extended the "D cut" on one of them to make sure the set screw was hitting the flat. At this point I am not discounting anything, but I did pull and verify tight fit on both motors. I will try pulling them again this weekend.

[NitroFreak]

@spudaddict said in Bimodal layer shift:

Try marking the side of the pulley to the stepper shaft with a marker and observe during the print if the line shifts.
Especially observe the stepper that is responsible of the 45 degree motion that is in the direction of the shift.

I´m 100% sure that this is not a normal skipped step from the stepper because it is too uniform and back and forth to the exact same space, does not happen.

[Danal]

Carefully check the entire length of the belts. I've found stretched spots that are REALLY hard to see, and if they were in "one end" vs. "the other" it could explain the good/bad pattern across the bed.

[DigiD]

Check that the ribs on the belts are not worn more in one section vs another , look for rubber dust as a sign of wear .
I had that happen on my delta and it caused all kinds of mysterious issues with travel being ok then not ok .
I actually saw the belt ribs ( the 3/4 worn ones ) riding on top of the drive pulley teeth rather than in between !

[mrehorstdmd]

Is this a corexy printer? Do the belt tensions vary with the extruder position in the XY plane?

[JamesM]

@mrehorstdmd

The BLV cube is a corexy printer....I have built one myself and don't have these issues.

@spudaddict

If you have a duet board in your printer(which I assume since you posted here) I would run an M122 command during a print that is having these issues and look to see if any "hiccups" are reported which could translate into missed steps.

I would post up your config.g file so people here could review it and see if anything sticks out.

I do agree with the others who have posted that it seems more like a mechanical issue since it is worse in different locations on the print bed.

[mrehorstdmd]

@JamesM Thanks, but I'd still like to hear what @spudaddict has to say. Self built printers are seldom identical, even if they start from the same set of plans/BOM. People make part substitutions and design changes all the time. Print quality varying with bed position is exactly the sort of problem you would expect from belts being improperly laid out, evidence of which is varying belt tension as the extruder carriage moves around.

[NitroFreak]

@mrehorstdmd said in Bimodal layer shift:

@JamesM Thanks, but I'd still like to hear what @spudaddict has to say. Self built printers are seldom identical, even if they start from the same set of plans/BOM. People make part substitutions and design changes all the time. Print quality varying with bed position is exactly the sort of problem you would expect from belts being improperly laid out, evidence of which is varying belt tension as the extruder carriage moves around.

Thats a good point, thats true.
However belt tension would have a very sloppy effect on print quality, but just check the first red tower, the sections that are shifted within themselves are very properly aligned

[spudaddict]

@mrehorstdmd As James M said, it is a CoreXY. I am not sure how I would measure tension variation on a moving belt - open to suggestions. IF the x and y rails are orthogonal there should be no tension variation. The strange thing is that in between the red tube print and the drag chain print, the printer made a perfect moai (Thingiverse: 144668). Its at work so I cant pull up a photo. Also, the "good" zones seem to move around the bed.

[spudaddict]

@Danal The belt is new, but I will do as you suggest. There are 2 belts on a CoreXY so I can easily check between them when I tear it down this weekend. I also have a new set of belts I may try as well.

[spudaddict]

@DigiD The belts are new, but I will definitely look them over. I also have a new set of belts I may try this weekend as well.

[spudaddict]

@NitroFreak I absolutely agree, which is why I ruled out most layer shifting "fixes." The pattern varies by location on the bed, is at random heights, but has two endpoints and then reverses back to the first layer origin. Very strange but specific.

[spudaddict]

@JamesM I will run a print tonight and try the M122 command. I too think it is mechanical, but I cant wrap my head around what it could be.

[spudaddict]

@mrehorstdmd See my reply to you above. A fellow 3D enthusiast from work built the same printer in tandem as I built mine. His BLV cube does not have this issue either. I'm not sure how to measure belt tension - maybe put a spring on the end and measure an elongation?

[spudaddict]

@NitroFreak Thats what is killing me! How is it so perfectly sloppy?

[spudaddict]

@spudaddict Here is a photo of the best and the worst pieces from the drag chain print. They were in diagonally opposite corners... which seems to indicate a mechanical issue due to the CoreXY configuration.

These were printed at the same time just 150mms or so apart.

[spudaddict]

@spudaddict Config.g

; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 2.03)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2.0.4 on Wed Oct 02 2019 19:29:38 GMT-0600 (Mountain Daylight Time)

; General preferences
G90 ; send absolute coordinates...
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"Wyrm Forge" ; set printer name

M667 S1 ; select CoreXY mode

; Network
M552 S1 ; enable network
M586 P0 S1 ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0 ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0 ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S0 ; physical drive 0 goes 0=backwards, 1=forwards
M569 P1 S0 ; physical drive 1 goes
M569 P2 S1 ; physical drive 2 goes
M569 P3 S1 ; physical drive 3 goes
M584 X0 Y1 Z2 E3 ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X79 Y158.88 Z809.21 E108.90 ; set steps per mm X is 158.88 with 0.9 stepper replaced
M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z12.00 E120.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X18000.00 Y18000.00 Z180.00 E1200.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X3000.00 Y3000.00 Z100.00 E9000.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1700 Y1700 Z800 E1400 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X-28.0 Y-6.0 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
M208 X320 Y320 Z460 S0 ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 Y1 S1 ; set active high and disabled endstops

; Z-Probe
M574 Z1 S2 ; set endstops controlled by probe
M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
M558 P9 H4 F120 T9000 ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
G31 P500 X8.1 Y-61.1 Z1.36 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
M557 X30:250 Y30:250 P7
;M557 X10:320 Y10:360 P7 ; define mesh grid

; Heaters
M305 P0 T100000 B4138 R4700 ; set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0
M143 H0 S140 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 140C
M305 P1 T100000 B4138 R4700 ; set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1
M143 H1 S280 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C
M307 H1 A987.5 C204.5 D8.4 S0.85 V24.1 B0 ; set A=gain, C=heat time, D=dead time, S=power %, V=voltage, B0=bang bang

; Fans
M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 ; set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on

; Tools
M563 P0 S"Right" D0 H1 F0 ; define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Custom settings are not defined

; Miscellaneous
M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss

[mrehorstdmd]

Belt tension doesn't have to be checked while it's moving. Simply move the extruder carriage around manually- you'll feel any variations in tension.

How about some photos or your BLV cube?

Are you, by any chance, using steel core belts?

[spudaddict]

@mrehorstdmd I tried steel belts on a modified Anet A8, they were terrible. Currently have fiberglass backed belts on it and have a coupe nylon corded rubber ones to try out.

I reprinted my tubes design. The offsets are much smaller. I was able to force the front right tube to offset by pressing and pulling the print head. Still troubleshooting...

My BLV is a bit hacked up since I have been swapping out motors, moving wires, inspecting belts and cannibalizing my A8 bed parts... but here ya go.