Two extruders doesn't heat "together"

Dougal1957

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together"

of course all the active anf stand by temperatures are correctly setted..

That's not helpful. Three different people have asked you to tell us what commands you are using, but you still won't tell us. Sorry but I can't help you under these circumstances.

I appreciate your help but I told many times that the trouble is command-independent...they don't work even if I turn them on and off "manually" from the DWC or the display not only when I start a print...have you seen the video wich link I've posted yesterday...in any case this is the inital portion of the GCODE generated by the slicer:
M140 S65.00
M104 T0 S195.00
M104 T1 S195.00
M109 T0 S195.00
M109 T1 S195.00
but I repeat they don't work even heating them manually....

Thanks

Now we may be getting closer to your issue
note the last line that says M104 (and this also applies to M109) that those commands are deprecated and you should be using G10/M568 commands

A Former User

@dougal1957 said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":
@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together"

of course all the active anf stand by temperatures are correctly setted..

That's not helpful. Three different people have asked you to tell us what commands you are using, but you still won't tell us. Sorry but I can't help you under these circumstances.

I appreciate your help but I told many times that the trouble is command-independent...they don't work even if I turn them on and off "manually" from the DWC or the display not only when I start a print...have you seen the video wich link I've posted yesterday...in any case this is the inital portion of the GCODE generated by the slicer:
M140 S65.00
M104 T0 S195.00
M104 T1 S195.00
M109 T0 S195.00
M109 T1 S195.00
but I repeat they don't work even heating them manually....

Thanks
Now we may be getting closer to your issue
note the last line that says M104 (and this also applies to M109) that those commands are deprecated and you should be using G10/M568 commands

sorry man...I know it's my fault but really I don't k now how to explain....they doesn't work even trying to heat them manually from DWC or Panel2 using the given buttons and NOT inserting the GCODEs from the console...and if you look at my video (wich I posted yesterday) you see that there are 2 LEDs wich blinks abnormaly....normally the LED near the power connectors is OFF and LED near the heaters connectors is always ON, none of them blinks....

https://youtu.be/2CgUXAy0Zoc

Plus, as I already told, if I heat one tool, then put it in standby with the same temperature, and start heating the second tool, the second tool doesn't heat at all and the first one starts to cool down (if the bed was "hot" it starts to cool down as well) even if all the temperatures are correctly setted and NO ERROR appears in console (to be honest in this situation I don't wait so much to see if an error appears because I'm starting to think that could be some hardware error and I don't want to run the risk to burn the board)

EDIT:
I've seen in the documentation that the mentioned LEDs are the bed heating LED and the heaters heating LEDs, it remains the fact that normally they would be always on (well I think that maybe they blink with the PWM frequency but the eyes sees them as always on) but in my case they blink as shown in the video...could someone tell me if this could be an hardware problem? Maybe some heating cartridges failure? This has started to happen when I've replaced my 30W cartridges with 50W ones....

deckingman

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

...they doesn't work even trying to heat them manually from DWC or Panel2 using the given buttons and NOT inserting the GCODEs from the console..

This is my final shot at this. Which buttons on DWC do you suppose will allow you to (manually) heat two tools simultaneously? You can set the active and standby temperatures but nothing will happen until you make a tool active. When you do so, only the active tool will heat to it's active temperature. The other tool won't heat until you make that the active one. At which point, the first tool should drop to it's standby temperature. But AFAIK, the only way you can heat multiple hot end heaters is to define the tools to use both heaters (but then of course you lose the ability to set either one to a different temperature).

A Former User

@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

...they doesn't work even trying to heat them manually from DWC or Panel2 using the given buttons and NOT inserting the GCODEs from the console..

This is my final shot at this. Which buttons on DWC do you suppose will allow you to (manually) heat two tools simultaneously? You can set the active and standby temperatures but nothing will happen until you make a tool active. When you do so, only the active tool will heat to it's active temperature. The other tool won't heat until you make that the active one. At which point, the first tool should drop to it's standby temperature. But AFAIK, the only way you can heat multiple hot end heaters is to define the tools to use both heaters (but then of course you lose the ability to set either one to a different temperature).

maybe is for my awful English, I apologize for that, but really I don't know how to make you to understand me...I'll try last time...my problem is NOT that I can't heat both heaters simultaneously....I know it's not possible! My problem is that (and I wrote it several times) AFTER a tool has reached his temperature, I set its stand by temperature equal to the active temperature and THEN activate the second tool, ok? In this situation the second tool DOESN'T heat at all and the first tool cools down EVEN if I see in DWC that all the temperatures are still correctly setted and NO ERROR appears in console....no matter if I heat firstly T0 and after T1 or firstly T1 and after T0...TWO hot heaters doesn't work....I hope to be able to make you understand me...only a question: have you seen my video? Do you agree that the LED's blinking is not normal?

This is the sequence of what I do, maybe this could be clearer:

From the DWC:

I set the active temperature of Tool (no matter if 0 or 1 but assume 0) to X°C, let's say 200°C
I wait T0 to reach 200°C and THEN I set its stand by temperature to 200°C
I set the active T1 temperature to 200°C and activate it, when I do so automatically T0 goes in stand-by

At this stage T1 doesn't heat at all and T0 slowly cools down even if in DWC I still see 200°C in the T0 active and stand by temperatures as well as in the T1 active temperature and the LED's start to blink. More if the bed was heated before the tools when T0 starts to cool down even the bed do so....

I really thank you for your trying to help me

deckingman

@the_dragonlord Do you get a heater error?

Try this.

Send the following commands

G10 P0 S160 R200
G10 P1 S150 R190

Then send T0 and let us know what happens. This should make tool zero active and it should heat to 200 deg C.

When it has reached 200 deg C, send T1 and let us know what happens. This should make Tool 1 active and it should heat to 190. At the same time, tool 0 should cool to 150.

jay_s_uk

@the_dragonlord might be worth posting the contents of your tool change files as well

A Former User

@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord Do you get a heater error?

Try this.

Send the following commands

G10 P0 S160 R200
G10 P1 S150 R190

Then send T0 and let us know what happens. This should make tool zero active and it should heat to 200 deg C.

When it has reached 200 deg C, send T1 and let us know what happens. This should make Tool 1 active and it should heat to 190. At the same time, tool 0 should cool to 150.

no, no heater error...when I'll be back home later on this afternoon I'll try what you suggested me and I'll let you know, thanks!

A Former User

@jay_s_uk said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord might be worth posting the contents of your tool change files as well

here they are:

tfree0.g:

; tfree0.g
; called when tool 0 is freed
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.4 on Sun Oct 25 2020 09:41:43 GMT+0100 (Ora standard dell’Europa centrale)

if {global.isPrinting==true && global.isTool0Priming==false}
	M83 ; relative extruder mode
	M201 E1500.00:1500.00 ; Set extruders acceleration
	if {move.axes[0].homed && move.axes[1].homed && move.axes[2].homed}
		G91
		G1 Z3 ; raise 3mm
		G92
		G1 E-5 F10000 ; retract 5mm
		M201 E500.00:500.00 ; Set extruders acceleration

tfree1.g:

; tfree0.g
; called when tool 0 is freed
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.4 on Sun Oct 25 2020 09:41:43 GMT+0100 (Ora standard dell’Europa centrale)

if {global.isPrinting==true && global.isTool1Priming==false}
	M83 ; relative extruder mode
	M201 E1500.00:1500.00 ; Set extruders acceleration
	if {move.axes[0].homed && move.axes[1].homed && move.axes[2].homed}
		G91
		G1 Z3 ; raise 3mm
		G92
		G1 E-5 F10000 ; retract 5mm
		M201 E500.00:500.00 ; Set extruders acceleration

tpost0.g:

; tpost0.g
; called after tool 0 has been selected
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.4 on Sun Oct 25 2020 09:41:43 GMT+0100 (Ora standard dell’Europa centrale)
; Wait for set temperatures to be reached
M116 P0

if global.isPrinting==true
	if global.isTool0Priming==false
		M83 ; relative extruder mode
		if {move.axes[0].homed && move.axes[1].homed && move.axes[2].homed}
			G1 E6.5 F500 ; undo retract
	else
		set global.isTool0Priming=false

tpost1.g:

; tpost0.g
; called after tool 0 has been selected
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.4 on Sun Oct 25 2020 09:41:43 GMT+0100 (Ora standard dell’Europa centrale)
; Wait for set temperatures to be reached
M116 P1

if global.isPrinting==true
	if global.isTool1Priming==false
		M83 ; relative extruder mode
		if {move.axes[0].homed && move.axes[1].homed && move.axes[2].homed}
			G1 E6.5 F500 ; undo retract
	else
		set global.isTool1Priming=false

in the tpre0.g and tpre1.g I've made no modifications

Before changing the cartridges this configuration of files worked....

p.s. I've copied-pasted the files xxx0.g in xxx1.g but I forgot to adjus the comments

jay_s_uk

@the_dragonlord yep, nothing obvious in those

A Former User

@jay_s_uk said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord yep, nothing obvious in those

have you see my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CgUXAy0Zoc ? what do you think about the LEDs blinking?

deckingman

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@jay_s_uk said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord yep, nothing obvious in those

have you see my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CgUXAy0Zoc ? what do you think about the LEDs blinking?

You have to be a bit careful when looking at the heater LEDs. As a general rule, the bed heater uses a PWM frequency of 10 Hz which is low enough to detect the on/off switching of the Mosfet. But the hot end heaters use a much higher PWM frequency by default, so it's impossible to visually distinguish between say fully on, or switching under PWM control. In RRF 3 you have to set the PWM frequency using the "Q" parameter in M950. If no "Q" value is present, I believe the default is 250 Hz for heaters and fans. If you used the configuration tool, it will likely have set the Q value to 10 Hz for the bed heater and not specified a Q value for the other heaters (so default would be 250 Hz).

A Former User

@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@jay_s_uk said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord yep, nothing obvious in those

have you see my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CgUXAy0Zoc ? what do you think about the LEDs blinking?

You have to be a bit careful when looking at the heater LEDs. As a general rule, the bed heater uses a PWM frequency of 10 Hz which is low enough to detect the on/off switching of the Mosfet. But the hot end heaters use a much higher PWM frequency by default, so it's impossible to visually distinguish between say fully on, or switching under PWM control. In RRF 3 you have to set the PWM frequency using the "Q" parameter in M950. If no "Q" value is present, I believe the default is 250 Hz for heaters and fans. If you used the configuration tool, it will likely have set the Q value to 10 Hz for the bed heater and not specified a Q value for the other heaters (so default would be 250 Hz).

as you can see in my video the frequency is about 2-3Hz so I think that this is abnormal....when the heating works (with just a tool and the bed active) both the LEDs seems always on so the PWM (blinking) frequency is high enough to "cheat" the eyes

deckingman

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

as you can see in my video the frequency is about 2-3Hz so I think that this is abnormal....

Not necessarily. But let's try to do things in a methodical and logical way, rather than speculate as to what might, or might not, be wrong. Run those commands I suggested and let us know what happens.

@jay_s_uk made a valid point about the tool change macros. Whilst there doesn't seem to be anything amiss, I would be inclined to comment out the commands in those macros. Then if we can get things working, you can add them back in.

A Former User

@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

as you can see in my video the frequency is about 2-3Hz so I think that this is abnormal....

Not necessarily. But let's try to do things in a methodical and logical way, rather than speculate as to what might, or might not, be wrong. Run those commands I suggested and let us know what happens.

@jay_s_uk made a valid point about the tool change macros. Whilst there doesn't seem to be anything amiss, I would be inclined to comment out the commands in those macros. Then if we can get things working, you can add them back in.

I will, thanks! I think that later I'll be able to do so when I'll be back home

A Former User

@deckingman said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

as you can see in my video the frequency is about 2-3Hz so I think that this is abnormal....

Not necessarily. But let's try to do things in a methodical and logical way, rather than speculate as to what might, or might not, be wrong. Run those commands I suggested and let us know what happens.

@jay_s_uk made a valid point about the tool change macros. Whilst there doesn't seem to be anything amiss, I would be inclined to comment out the commands in those macros. Then if we can get things working, you can add them back in.

I've put back the old cartridges and now it seems all solved....i have no words....

Phaedrux

@the_dragonlord said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

i have no words.

How about incredulous?

I'm as confused as you are.

Dougal1957

@phaedrux could this be due to a different PID tune at all I wouldn't expect it but who the hell knows

gloomyandy

@dougal1957 Might be worth measuring the resistance of the old/new cartridges? Maybe the new ones are drawing more current than they are supposed to?

Dougal1957

@gloomyandy said in Two extruders doesn't heat "together":

@dougal1957 Might be worth measuring the resistance of the old/new cartridges? Maybe the new ones are drawing more current than they are supposed to?

not me with the issue just throwing ideas into the pot!