Polycarbonate build plate…. No bed heat Success!!!
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Im testing a new build plate for someone at the moment http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,776178,777450#msg-777450 and the issue is not adhesion, it sticks really well even at modest temperatures or no heat at all. The issue is release, ABS parts printed with any squash down on the first layer at a surface temp of more than 60 degrees are welded to the surface.
This is where established products like printbite have been carefully formulated, they need higher temps to stick but release parts at higher temps for convenience.
How does the PC sheet work in this regard? As I see it the best surface is one which is essentially permanent and long lasting, so if release is a problem and requires sharp tools this isnt likely to be the case. Otherwise the surface has to be cheap and easily replaced as its longevity is short.
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tomorrow i have to print off some more of these bearings but then ill try Igus iglidur filament which is another self lubricating difficult to print experiment for this build plate
I know we just spoke in another thread, but I thought I'd add to this that in all of my Igus prints so far I had really no problems sticking it on my PEI sheet. The 180 printed fine most of the time without a brim. With the 170 I needed a brim, but then it worked fine too. The prints removed fairly easily from the PEI once cooled. This was heated, though, not unheated like you've just done with your PC sheet.
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Interesting, what product is that? From the colour it’s not J260-PF, maybe I150-PF? Would be pretty neat to print multi material parts with integrated bushings! I wonder how it combines with ABS, PC and other materials…
I'm going to find out soon. I've got a Chimera on my D-bot but I've so far only been using one nozzle. I'm going to get the other side set up and running "real soon now" specifically so I can try this out.
Comparing the heat settings and whatnot a fairly close match to the Igus filament settings is PCMax from Polymaker. I don't know if the two plastics are chemically compatible to be printed up against each other and stick together, but I'll find out.
My first goal for such a combined material print with the Igus filament is to produce a one-piece bushing block for my Di3 that will be a combination of the housing that currently holds an lm8uu bearing printed out of PCMax or PETG or something like that with the lm8uu itself printed directly within the housing using the Igus filament.
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Im testing a new build plate for someone at the moment http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,776178,777450#msg-777450 and the issue is not adhesion, it sticks really well even at modest temperatures or no heat at all. The issue is release, ABS parts printed with any squash down on the first layer at a surface temp of more than 60 degrees are welded to the surface.
This is where established products like printbite have been carefully formulated, they need higher temps to stick but release parts at higher temps for convenience.
How does the PC sheet work in this regard? As I see it the best surface is one which is essentially permanent and long lasting, so if release is a problem and requires sharp tools this isnt likely to be the case. Otherwise the surface has to be cheap and easily replaced as its longevity is short.
Mostly i dont have to squish filaments more than .02 unless dealing with something that warps. then either squishing or a modest bed temp of 55c depending on filament will prevent warping.
Removal is fairly easy the majority of time, a completed part will either twist off or the plate can be flexed to release.
But most of the time a light tap with a scraper is all that is needed.
Sometimes from too much squishing the plate can begin to have a semi gloss again which causes parts to grip too strongly but this is after a lot of printing…. a quick resand solves this issue.
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Hi guys,
getting some 3mm PC sheet tomorrow to hopefully get over the "non stick" issues I have.
Now the question is whether to sand or not? Apply heat or not for printing primarily ABS?Thanks !
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Always sand…. only apply heat if warping is an issue... usually a brim or mouse ears is enough to prevent warping but if you do not want a brim then i have found a little squish and 55c will prevent warping.
My rule of thumb is always to start with no heat and only add a max of 55c if necessary as heat really causes filaments to grip especially following prints because the heat speeds up the process of needing to resand again.
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Perfect. Will get to it in the morning :-). Thanks!!
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Just wanted to say thanks Whitewolf for the work you've done here with PC. I purchased a 12x12" sheet from the Amazon link, cut it to size for my delta, sanded and cleaned, and now I'm having great success with Hatcbox PLA. I've been using borosilicate glass/Aquanet ever since I started printing a year and a half ago and this smokes it. I'm using no heat and the adhesion is remarkable, much better than the hairspray could achieve, squished or not. The bottom of Benchy is completely legible now and I can remove it!
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Just wanted to say thanks Whitewolf for the work you've done here with PC. I purchased a 12x12" sheet from the Amazon link, cut it to size for my delta, sanded and cleaned, and now I'm having great success with Hatcbox PLA. I've been using borosilicate glass/Aquanet ever since I started printing a year and a half ago and this smokes it. I'm using no heat and the adhesion is remarkable, much better than the hairspray could achieve, squished or not. The bottom of Benchy is completely legible now and I can remove it!
Glad I could help!
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There seems to be a lot of questions regarding sanding…. here is some photos of a freshly wet sanded sheet just after cleaning and dry. Again it was sanded with 60 grit and a vibrating sander. As you can see PC doesnt really lose material when sanded. you will know it is correct when there is a an even dullness to the surface. It takes a bit to get there, the fine dust will form a paste im the water and i just keep moving the paste around and adding more water when needed
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How you unstick the pieces when finish?
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If you sanded it properly and did not use bed heat the parts should just pop off by giving them a little twist.
For trickier parts you can flex the build plate back and fourth in different directions which will cause it to release.
Usually just a twist or a light tap of the scraper is needed if bed heat was not used and sanding was proper.
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Im testing a new build plate for someone at the moment http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,776178,777450#msg-777450 and the issue is not adhesion, it sticks really well even at modest temperatures or no heat at all. The issue is release, ABS parts printed with any squash down on the first layer at a surface temp of more than 60 degrees are welded to the surface.
This is where established products like printbite have been carefully formulated, they need higher temps to stick but release parts at higher temps for convenience.
How does the PC sheet work in this regard? As I see it the best surface is one which is essentially permanent and long lasting, so if release is a problem and requires sharp tools this isnt likely to be the case. Otherwise the surface has to be cheap and easily replaced as its longevity is short.
My extruder has a hard time with nylon but here is your test object printed with Nylon 645 for comparison. No bed heat was used it would benefit from the mouse ears on corners.
PETG has no problem without bed heat the x carriage printing this print was done in Guidel!ne which is a PETG variant there was no bed heat and no warping on the carriage
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Is this stuff the same thing as Lexan in the States?
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Yes polycarbonate we are just using the black no name knock off version most likely from china.
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So I printed another type of nylon based filament today Taulman PCTPE (Nijaflex with Nylon added)….. this build plate definitely gets its limits tested with anything containing Acetal POM or Nylon. When I used matter hackers pro flex, it almost stuck too good but was removable.... But any of the Nylons or Acetal Pom will need a brim to print without bed heat to prevent warping.
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got my clear PC (no black available) today and did a first test print. Worked well. Sticks well.
Subsequent test prints had major issues with ABS with cold HB and also at 55C. I get the feeling that something else is off. This is very strange (went back to fixed Zheight as my probe had major issues with the clear sanded PC with variances of 0.9mm during mesh bed leveling).More tests later…..
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Yes polycarbonate we are just using the black no name knock off version most likely from china.
What's a good source in the UK for the black polycarbonate?
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got my clear PC (no black available) today and did a first test print. Worked well. Sticks well.
Subsequent test prints had major issues with ABS with cold HB and also at 55C. I get the feeling that something else is off. This is very strange (went back to fixed Zheight as my probe had major issues with the clear sanded PC with variances of 0.9mm during mesh bed leveling).More tests later…..
I had a feeling it wouldnt work, you might need a piezo sensor to use clear PC. or you can manually level your bed using the paper test.
What started me down this path in trying black PC is the sensor does not even detect my Fleks3D plate that has an etched surface.
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Yes polycarbonate we are just using the black no name knock off version most likely from china.
What's a good source in the UK for the black polycarbonate?
Not sure (i live in US) but grey PC would probably work as well and might be more readily available. Basically any type of PC that is Opaque unless you are using a piezo sensor
In the US we have plastic shops that all they sell is plastic sheet and rods…. does the UK have something similar?
