Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi
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@sebkritikel said
Hilariously Misumi put out a blog post to talk about some of the differences, but frankly they did a bad job at it: https://blog.misumiusa.com/youve-got-the-power-mr-vs-gt/
They are different! [proceed to not explain the differences at all]
Thanks Misumi!
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@brotherchris said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
@sebkritikel Here are the results of the pyramid. It breaks the strait lines into more of a gradient.
Hi Chris, apologies for the delay in response. Not quite the result I was expecting, but I think its along the same vein. The repeating "diagonal" lines in a constant-cross section print, and the gradient in the "pyramid" print do suggest some sort of eccentricity or issue with the extruder.
@brotherchris said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
More pic of the stripes. Reminds me of old school A4988 candy strips. snip
In these pictures, where the pattern is much more obvious, you can measure the error period, and eventually verify if the error occurs only after a complete revolution of a specific part of the extruder - stepper, a gear, etc.
Example measurement.
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@theruttmeister said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
@sebkritikel said
Hilariously Misumi put out a blog post to talk about some of the differences, but frankly they did a bad job at it: https://blog.misumiusa.com/youve-got-the-power-mr-vs-gt/
They are different! [proceed to not explain the differences at all]
Thanks Misumi!
hahahaha
@bot said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
@sebkritikel Dude... yeah I just read your reply and saw that blog post -- WTF. It's so confusing. I've got MR2 drive pulleys and 2GT idlers because a Misumi rep told me that this combination would work. And it seems to work pretty damn well but I almost want to try converting the idlers to MR2 to see how it is. My belts are also MR2.
I wasn't aware that the Unitta/E3D stuff is much different, but thankfully I have no desire to mix and match anyway.
In your setup.... the 2GT idlers, if they truly are different, probably work fine. I could imagine significant issues if you were to mix MR2 and 2GT pulleys in a transmission or gearing setup.
For what its worth, all my belts from SDP/SI and Misumi say "POWERGRIP" instead of "POWER GRIP", have their country of MFG on there (USA, UK, and JAPAN), and the part numbers on the belts take me straight to official Gates (USA) catalogs for the GT series stuff.
More investigation is needed.
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I got fed up with something retraction related in Simply3d. So I did some test prints in Kisslicer and Cura (cura definitely has some odd quirks when it comes retraction though...) and the diagonal cross hatch lines that plagued me are smooth as silk in the Cura prints. So I just wanted to put the reminder to rule out slicer quirks occasionally when hunting this down.
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@sebkritikel I now have a Bondtech BMG and mosquito installed. The artifacts appear to be the same, but I will run another pyramid to see if there are any changes.
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@brotherchris said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
I now have a Bondtech BMG and mosquito installed.
Same stepper?
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@brotherchris said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
@sebkritikel I now have a Bondtech BMG and mosquito installed. The artifacts appear to be the same, but I will run another pyramid to see if there are any changes.
Thats a bummer to hear.
Is it the same stepper motor on the extruder?beat me to it!Some other testing steps... the goal of course is to not waste filament, but sometimes we need to
- If you do the same print (same exact GCODE file) multiple times in a row - print, remove, restart, repeat - are the patterns in the exact same spot(s), or does it vary print to print?
- Can you do a medium-small box - 40mm x 40mm x 40mm perhaps? Both with infill, and another print with only one or two walls? If it happens to both (I know you said it does previously) can you take more images, measure the horizontal distance (period), and try and measure the slope of the artifact, and upload the GCODE file?
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@sebkritikel said in Tips to mitigate vertical artifacting Duet 2 Wifi:
Some other testing steps... the goal of course is to not waste filament, but sometimes we need to
i think filament is the least of his problem
it will make for an interesting video to watch in the end.how many times have you disassembled and reassembled the belt with its idlers by now?
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@Phaedrux Different stepper. I might try the other E driver though.
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@brotherchris
i know you want to reveal your project once its ready, but a picture of the belt and its path might help to think of more things that could be causing this. -
@Veti No worries on that. It's kind of a mess at the moment, but here are some shots of the stuff that matters.
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Looking at the long spans on the belts remind me of another issue I had (I run a delta though). The constant tension on the motors eventually affected the bearings in the motors. I eventually replaced the motors, but I also added in thrust bearings* between the pulley and the motor, so any lateral pull on the motor shaft is limited by the pulley pushing down on the thrust bearing against the motor. Granted the motors were also like 7 years old so they did good. Still, I'd at least consider these since they are easy to replace, inexpensive, and they worked great for me removing a visible deflection in the motor shaft when the belts were tightened. Tuning after that I tuned for better jerk and accel, but that could have been the motor model changing. Still, these did have noticeable improvement on the hash pattern for the old motors before I replaced them, but the artifacts were not fully resolved until I changed slicers. I had to format my computer recently and didn't deem those pictures as worthy of backup....heh.. and it's kind of hard to describe how it changed to a kind of fainter or less pronounced but crisper or finer lines at the same time.
*- https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QKKYKR8/ -
taking the last picture as a reference.
the belt at the top motor is angled and goes from the bottom path to the top path. that could be the cause of those artefacts. the belt would be constantly pushed upwards on the pulley.
looking at the bottom motor. here the belts are not parallel. this will cause dimensional inaccuracies. the belt path creates a triangle where the belt moved is longer than the axis movement it causes.
That part of the belt path and the one on the x axis has to be parallel to the extrusions. -
@Veti I will take another look, I might have to make some modifications. I don't know if the setup I have now will let me get any closer.
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This is to illustrate why the inner belts need to be parallel.
Assume C is the belt with a length of 11cm (high numbers to make the point)
A is the length of the y axis that it can move and is 10cmYou are printing a straight Line in Y direction with a length of 11cm.
The Motors pull 11cm of the belt, but the y axis only moves 10cm. causing the line to be printed to have a length of 10cm.
Even worse. if you dont have the same triangle on the other side of the y, you now have 1cm extra belt in your belt path. this reduces the belt tension.
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I would be surprised if the exoslide printer design had such a common corexy flaw.
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@Veti Check this out, top pic, Gates belts. Bottom pic cheap Amazon belt. My only guess if the cheap belt teeth are more forgiving.
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that is indeed an interesting result. i guess time to wait for the toothed idlers to arrive.
the belts from your pictures do not look like gates belts though.
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@Veti They are gates high temp belts. That could be the issue. Maybe these are stiffer then regular belts. https://www.printedsolid.com/products/gates-powergrip-2gt-high-temp-belt-1m
