Mosquito hot end...yes or no?
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@Corexy said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
OK mate...obviously if I knew heaps about it it wouldn't be asking, so please forgive me for thinking that an RTD was the PT100/PT1000 only. Worse things will happen before we die.
RTD == Resistance Temperature Detector
They come as NTC (negative thermal coefficient) and PTC (positive thermal coefficient). PT100 is PTC.While I appreciate your help, that reply has only dazzled me a bit. Thermocouples are out of the question for me, and I don't need 500degC. 350degC would be new territory for me. I do have a PT100 on my existing printer, and I did use 4 wires with it. It has worked well for 4 years, and seems to be accurate and consistent.
When you have "an amplifier" for PT100 or high precision ADC it works ok. But not all 3d printer boards do. When you have "pt100 input" and you use 4 wires PT100 is more precise than the NTC in general case so in that case it's better to use PT100 as it's more precise.
In simple laymans terms I am just asking is there any reason I would buy the PT100/1000 instead of the standard thermistor for the Mosquito? I don't mind soldering up 4 wires, and if the PT1000 is worth it with 2 wires that's fine too. If the obvious solution is to just use the standard thermistor that Slice sells, I'll just do that.
Basically expense aside, which is the best for all round use up to 350degC?
PT100/1000 is more precise if you have PT input on your electronics (for PT100 you need daughterboard for duet boards, and for PT1000 you can hook it up directly to maestro only iirc)
As for "what's the best" I think it makes no difference in real life. Absolute temperature does vary a lot between probes (up to 3%, even 5% on super cheap PRC stuff) but if you go with temp tower to find the best temp for your setup you don't care much about "absolute values", that is one of the reasons you should always use temp tower and not take numbers you read on the box for granted
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@deckingman said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi Did you reach out to Slice Engineering when you had those problems? If not, why not? If so, what was their response?
No
It is not my device and not my printer so it was not my place to do so. I did advise that Slice be contacted, but since the solution with metal plate worked ...My original is "en route" so I'll do extensive testing with thermal images when it arrives with the SEEK camera (don't have anything better
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@arhi That's really strange about the surrounding mount part getting so hot. With my experimental design, I used a very similar arrangement to hold the great lump of a hot block which had 6 Mosquito heat breaks screwed into it. When heated to 200+ degrees with an 80 watt heater, the surrounding mount was barely above ambient. I'd hazard a guess with my "calibrated finger tip" that it was about 45 to 50 deg C at most.
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@deckingman said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi That's really strange about the surrounding mount part getting so hot. With my experimental design, I used a very similar arrangement to hold the great lump of a hot block which had 6 Mosquito heat breaks screwed into it. When heated to 200+ degrees with an 80 watt heater, the surrounding mount was barely above ambient. I'd hazard a guess with my "calibrated finger tip" that it was about 45 to 50 deg C at most.
I can talk about exact temperatures only about clone as that is what I measured (the outside black aluminium frame comes up to 100C after 20minutes of printing and settles there, that's with single thin 5V 25mm fan) but I don't see how those are relevant. The original had the same issue on two instances, one of them was solved by using some assembly from bondtech that was made specifically for Mosquito (hard plastic, injection molded, metal inserts.. have not had it in my hands) and the other by 2mm steel plate added between mosquito and petg mount. The temp did not go high enough to pull the plastic screws from petg (and abs too) quickly, it would require few days of printing to get the hotend to fail and drop out. I'm not able to assess the temp at which petg/abs would fail like that, but there's obviously some heat there going trough those tiny tubes.
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@arhi You should tell the guys at Slice Engineering about it because AFAIK, it's not a problem that they are aware of. It's not like they just threw something together and started selling it. They went through numerous design iterations and spent over two years developing the Mosquito before they ever thought about putting them on the market. They have one unit that has been sitting on a test bench and last time I spoke to them, it had been running 24/7 for over 6 months.
Unless someone brings a problem to their attention, they only have their own (albeit extensive) testing to go by. It was customer feedback from a few people who managed to dent the tips of the thin heat break tubes, which led to the design change to give extra support to the those tips.
When I ran my own business, I used to impress upon my customers that if they had any problem with my product or workmanship, I wanted to be the first to hear about it, not the last. Slice Engineering have the same philosophy, as do the Duet guys.
IMO, if you have a problem with a product then it's only fair to point it out to the supplier or manufacturer and give them the opportunity to put it right. If they fail to respond and/or resolve the issue to your satisfaction, then you have the right to complain.
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@deckingman said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi You should tell the guys at Slice Engineering about it
As I mention, my piece is in the mail and should be here soon and then I can do proper analysis and report anything I find back to them. I cannot force other ppl to do the analysis, they wanted quick solution, we came up to it quickly, they are happy and don't want to change anything. Not everyone feel they should contribute back, I hate that but I have to accept it. The few machines I invested a lot of time consulting and directly fixing, the owner is as closed as possible
.. took me a while to realise that, now he's on his own, still on 8bit marlin .. but he purchased new bmg+mosquito from bondtech with some ddx package for his cr printer with "screw2screw" solution .. that works 1/1 no problems, and he has the other original in the drawer, didn't even let me help him mount it to his wanhao as there's no "screw2screw solution" (ez* company promissed him they will make some solution like that so we'll see)..Anynow, I don't like to leave house too much these days with all this issues and it's hard to debug all that trough phone, I don't feel comfortable reporting to Slice stuff I can't reproduce or retest on my testbed. OTOH the one we solved with the steel plate is owned by a decent human being and a good friend
so I'll see he ping the Slice directly, no need for the broke phones game there. My piece that is supposed to stay here (and not just be here for few weeks for me to test and then pass on) should arrive any day now and I already have a mount idea with few TC sensors to monitor the temperature of different segments during different operations and to reproduce all the problems I have seen on this 3 printers where I help install mosquito. I will for sure shoot all my findings to Slice as I don't know the other way to improve the design IMO, if you have a problem with a product then it's only fair to point it out to the supplier or manufacturer and give them the opportunity to put it right. If they fail to respond and/or resolve the issue to your satisfaction, then you have the right to complain.
Btw the problem with mosquito melting the screws from the ABS/PETG mount was reported to the reseller (filastruder) as originally we screwed the M2.5 screws directly into ABS. When that failed I found the M2.5 brass inserts (I use those for G5 remote direct drive) and used those, they melted trought he ABS too. We pinged filastruder and they sent us "special screws" designed to go into plastic and that were supposed to be used to attach Mosquito to plastic. Those we tried both on ABS and PETG and in both cases after a while they melted they way trough
... Filastruder did not answer after we reported that so the solution was to use a steel plate, screw it into ABS on top, tap the M2.5 and screw the mosquito directly into that steel plate and that works awesome... so problem solved, filastruder never replied back.So no complaints here, we solved them problem, Mosquito works awesome as I wrote in this thread multiple times.. everything else is "potential problem" and "how to solve it", if I start naming issues I had with e3dV6 I fear I'd broke the max post size limit on the forum
.. I just assume those (fairly easy to solve) issues I encountered with Mosquito are good info to read before installing one. -
@arhi Curious.
I have two standard Ms mounted (for now) to printed PLA mounts and there is no sign the heat is reaching the mount.
Frederick
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@fcwilt said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi Curious.
I have two standard Ms mounted (for now) to printed PLA mounts and there is no sign the heat is reaching the mount.
screwed in pla with plastic screws? what are you printing at what temp? (we were printing PLA at 200 and petg at 240). that is sooooo different from my experience
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@arhi said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@fcwilt said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi Curious.
I have two standard Ms mounted (for now) to printed PLA mounts and there is no sign the heat is reaching the mount.
screwed in pla with plastic screws? what are you printing at what temp? (we were printing PLA at 200 and petg at 240). that is sooooo different from my experience
Not plastic screws, normal metric metal machine screws. Temps from 190 to 250, depending on filament. Longest print 6.75 hours. Stock fan sucking heat out of M, away from mount.
Frederick
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@fcwilt said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@fcwilt said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
@arhi Curious.
I have two standard Ms mounted (for now) to printed PLA mounts and there is no sign the heat is reaching the mount.
screwed in pla with plastic screws? what are you printing at what temp? (we were printing PLA at 200 and petg at 240). that is sooooo different from my experience
Not plastic screws, normal metric metal machine screws. Temps from 190 to 250, depending on filament. Longest print 6.75 hours. Stock fan sucking heat out of M, away from mount.
Frederick
There's something I've been thinking about...having the fan pulling air across the heat break rather than blowing it into it.
I first tried it with a little printed shroud for the standard hot end on my E3 Pro, as the designer recommended it, and it has always performed very nicely with no heat creep or problems at all.
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Hi guys,
I didn't have time to go through the whole thread, I just read parts of it, but since my friend @arhi mentioned my experience, I just wanted to confirm it.
I've been printing a lot of different PLA / PET-G brands with the original Mosquito and it has been performing like a champ - I did not have a single problem with it. Before that I was using an MK11 Microswiss all-metal hotend and it was honestly a pain. When it was working- it was performing ok, but when you want to swap a nozzle for example - that is when the nightmare starts - it was a lottery if it would clog or not and cleaning the whole system was painful.
With Mosquito, swapping nozzles is a breeze and I do it every other day now, to switch between detailed and big prints. I was "expecting" it to fail at some point, since there were some prints that were 24+hour long - but it did not. The only "issue" I've had is that when printing with a 0.8 nozzle with high layers - you have to lower the speed to 30mm/sec if you want to avoid underextrusion, but that is understandable, and you have the MAGNUM version if you want to go faster with bigger nozzles.
Anyway, if you can afford the Mosquito - I would say go for it. I will be upgrading to the V2 mosquito magnum in the following days for sure.
Hope it helps.
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Cheers mate,
That does help. I'll save my pennies and go with one of these.
I do here about a few issues with mocro swiss I must say
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@Corexy also have a look on the Dragon hotend. Very similar performance to the Mosquito, but the heat block is E3d style which means you don’t need to deal with boron nitride paste and it is compatible with all V6 mounts. Besides that: half the price.
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@omni said in Mosquito hot end...yes or no?:
With Mosquito, swapping nozzles is a breeze and I do it every other day now...
Do you use their 1.5Nm torque wrench?
Do you preheat the nozzle before you replace?
