Why am I having to run with an extrusion multiplier of 60%?
-
I am having a similar issue as well, also using dual titan extruders on a kossel type delta with a chimera hot end. doing the 100mm check i had to lower to around a 400 steps per mm and need an extrusion multiplier of around .80 to make it not over extrude and to pass the extrusion width test when printing a vase. Seeing that we both have titans, could it be a titan issue?
-
It's about 0.6mm which is constant with a 0.5mm nozzle. Pressure advance makes no difference.
For info, the filament and the filament settings in Slic3R are the same that I've always used with the same Diamond hot end fitted to an ageing RRP Mendel.
-
I have a two titans using 1.75mm and I don't run my steps/mm anywhere near 400. 290 more like.
-
I am having a similar issue as well, also using dual titan extruders on a kossel type delta with a chimera hot end. doing the 100mm check i had to lower to around a 400 steps per mm and need an extrusion multiplier of around .80 to make it not over extrude and to pass the extrusion width test when printing a vase. Seeing that we both have titans, could it be a titan issue?
Could be but I can't see why. If you ask to push 100mm in and set it to do exactly that, then why do we have to reduce it by 60% to get a decent print?
-
I have a two titans using 1.75mm and I don't run my steps/mm anywhere near 400. 290 more like.
Well that would do the job but when you calibrate the steps per mm, do you still get 100mm of filament when you ask for 100mm?
Edit, because I have to set mine to 424 to achieve that.
-
have you done a 100mm test with hotend on and pushing filament through? I havent thinking maybe the pressure causes issues or something. Ohter issue i am running into which may or may not be related are weak infil. I have the extrusion multiplier down to .8 to stop over extrusion on the outside but need 150% infil extrusion width just to get ok infil.
-
have you done a 100mm test with hotend on and pushing filament through?
Yes, said that in my first post.
-
sorry, missed that I guess. I was always assuming this was a slicer issue in simplify3d as that is what i am using, but if you are using Slic3r that doesnt appear to be the issue…
-
I also have a couple of titans and run them at the suggested 419 steps per mm on two different machines both running 1.75mm filament with no issues at all. Both my titans have bog standard 1.8° 1.68A Nema 17s.
I also run E3d V6 hotends with 0.4mm Nozzles and use simplify 3d with a 0.4mm fixed extrusion width and an extrusion multiplier of 1.
@DjDemonD 290 seems extremely low.
I don't have mixing hotends though so cant comment on that.
Have you tried setting the extruders only to non-interpolated microstepping and trying again? it shouldn't make a difference but you never know.
-
It might be low but its not under-extruding, my objects print with extrusion multiplier in slic3r at 1.00.
I am using pancake 20mm 1.8 deg nema 17's, but this shouldn't make a difference to the steps/mm or gearing of the extruder.
-
I am also using a Titan with 20mm Pancake motor and have no under/over extrusion my S3D is set at 1.0 ext factor with a 0.48mm default width (0.4mm nozzle E3D Hotend) and step's/mm is approx 414 IIRC (would have to switch Printer on and check it)
Doug
-
DjDemonD, if your steps per mm is around 290 with an extrusion multiplier of 1 would that be the same as the 419 steps per mm suggested with an extrusion multiplier of .7?
Did you set your steps per mm by printing objects and adjusting or by extruding 100mm and measuring the distance?
-
It might be low but its not under-extruding, my objects print with extrusion multiplier in slic3r at 1.00.
I am using pancake 20mm 1.8 deg nema 17's, but this shouldn't make a difference to the steps/mm or gearing of the extruder.
So it seems to me that we effectively have the same setting, In my case it's steps of 424 with extrusion multiplier of 0.7, and in your case it's steps per mm of 290 with extrusion multiplier of 1.00. Others are getting good results with std E3D settings of around 419 steps per mm and extrusion multiplier of around 1.00. What's the common thread? Mine is a CoreXY is yours?
-
I am also using a Titan with 20mm Pancake motor and have no under/over extrusion my S3D is set at 1.0 ext factor with a 0.48mm default width (0.4mm nozzle E3D Hotend) and step's/mm is approx 414 IIRC (would have to switch Printer on and check it)
Doug
Doug. Just out of curiosity, is yours CoreXY?
-
The two machines i use with the E3D titans are both deltas with bowdens. Not that it should matter i wouldn't have thought.
Normally an extrusion multiplier of 0.92 or thereabouts is for PLA and 1.0 is for ABS. Materials like colorfab xt are normally higher 1.05 or so. But to be fair it depends on the brand of filament more than anything else.
-
The two machines i use with the E3D titans are both deltas with bowdens. Not that it should matter i wouldn't have thought.
Normally an extrusion multiplier of 0.92 or thereabouts is for PLA and 1.0 is for ABS. Materials like colorfab xt are normally higher 1.05 or so. But to be fair it depends on the brand of filament more than anything else.
For sure I've only ever had to use similar extrusion multipliers on my old RRP Mendel and then only to suit different rolls of filament. Admittedly they weren't E3D titan extruders but similar geared design.
What I can't get my head around is why I have to use such a large number for printing when I've set the steps per mm to give me an accurate extruded length when "static". I just have this nagging feeling that it's something to do with CoreXY or the way Slic3R works with CoreXY or something that the firmware is doing. What's bugging me is that CoreXY works differently in that one motor will make the hot end move diagonally. To get X or Y axis movement, you have to drive both motors and in one case, one motor forwards and the other backwards. As far as a slicer is concerned, the volume to extrude is purely a function of axis travel so is the fact that on a CoreXY both motors are driven for pure X movement screwing things up?
I'm clutching at straws here but if everyone with CoreXY and Slic3R has to set a really low extrusion multiplier, then I may be on to something. Is there anyone out there getting good results on a CoreXY, using Slic3R with "normal" extrusion settings? If so, that'll blow one theory out of the water.
-
I have a corexy not using Duet but ramps, I use Slic3r and I have a flex3drive extruder which at 1/8th microstepping needs to be set to 1600 steps/mm. Which it is. And it extrudes normally extrusion multiplier 1.00.
Are you providing enough power to the machine (I suspect you have a massive PSU on that bad boy) is the motor current correct for the extruders?
My understanding of corexy kinematics is that whilst two motors have to turn for x or y movements and only one turns for diagonal movements this has no bearing on syncing extrusion moves, if you ask for 10mm movement in whatever direction and 10mm extrusion whilst you do it thats what you get.
I checked the steps/mm on my titans, one is set to 250 and the other to 333 both printers extruding normally with extrusion multipliers set to 1.00. I can't explain this difference. Its not filament either as I regular swap filaments between machines and get very similar results. Maybe one extruder has a different drive gear to the other.
-
PSU is 24V 15 Amp (350Watt) but it's only doing the steppers and hot end heater and Duet. The bed is 240V via a SSR. Main motors (X,Y and Z) are 2 amp but I'm running them at 1.8. Extruder motors are the next size up to the pancake ones. 0,4 Amp but I'm running them at 0.3. No sign of any skipped steps. Current draw with everything running is about 7 amps max from the PSU so plenty of spare capacity.
I agree about the CoreXY kinematics and that if you ask for 10mm of movement and 10mm of extrusion, that's what you should get but for whatever reason, it seems I'm getting 30% more.
I've just printed your test pieces that I found on Thingiverse. Started at 100% extrusion multiplier. Then reduced it to 90% and printed another, and so on down to 60%. I need daylight to see properly but 100% is way too much and 60% is a bit too little. Crazy…...
-
Well all I can say is that the steps/mm calculated for this extruder and what it actually needs to be set to are not the same. Unless you want to be running with a 0.6 extrusion multiplier all the time. It doesn't really matter though how you set it, there are a lot of different ways of adjusting the amount of material extruded flow, steps/mm, multiplier they all do the same thing. As long as the amount you get out matches the amount you need you're there. I'd change your steps/mm to a corrected value and set your multiplier to 1.
I've always set the steps/mm fairly arbitrarily then adjusted based on calibration objects. When I first got a titan I figured since I was running around 100 steps/mm on a mk8 which was not geared and the titan was 3:1 I'd try 300 and see how I got on. On the mini kossel I nudged it down to 250. On the large kossel I started at 250 and went up to 330. Now that I can't explain but the large kossel has been nothing but trouble, at the moment its a genuine e3d v6 jamming (with abs!) if I even look at it funny. Might send it back.
-
Mine is a Delta and something that maybe of interest is that the first batch of Titans towards the end of that first run had the hobbing tool wear which caused the drive gear to be the wrong size.
Myself and a few others that I know had this issue and in my case caused horrendous stripping issues.
E3D Swapped them out FOC as indeed they should have done all it needed was to send them a photo of the drive gear.
When you calculate your steps/mm you are measuring the amount of filament going into the extruder arn't you and not the length coming out of the nozzle tho I doubt you are making that mistake but stranger things have happened.
Doug
