Asymetric motor amperage on combined axis

fxstein

Hi,

I ams seeing a very strange phenomenon. When I combine multiple motors into a single axis, I have the first motor in the group run significantly hotter (measured) than the other motor(s). I first witnessed the issue on the X-axis, but then also on Z.

I am running a Modix3D Big60V3 that I upgraded to separate motor control with a Duex5 expansion. The machine comes stock with 2 X-axis and 4 Z-axis motors but all of them in series (or series/parallel on Z). In order to gain better control, accuracy and higher speeds I rewired all of them on to separate channels and developed a new config matching the physical layout. Tried to be diligent to read the GCODE pages on what order has to be followed when setting up the various parameters.

Attached the current config.g (work in progress).

Summary of changes:

Broke out all motors on separate channels
Eliminated the Bed PID controller and leveraged the K-type sensor and SSR to control the bed via Duet
High power LED lighting via heater 6 on the Duex5
Upgraded power supply
Tuned extraction, temperatures, speed, acceleration & jerk, frequency, ...

For both the X (X1 & X2) and Z axis (ZL1, ZL2, ZR1 & ZR2) I see as much as 15-20C temperature difference between the first motor in the group (X1 & ZL1) (hotter) and the rest of the group. The first motors are on the Duet2 Wifi and the others are all on the Duex5.

The Duet2 Wifi and the Duex are connected (bridged) at their power connectors via 10AWG silicone wire to ensure stable voltage.

I am setting up the motor groups first, then later the amperage and the likes of steps...

When running, the first motors also have higher torque compared to the rest. When tuning for stall detection, it is always the Duex5 attached motors (X2, ZL2, ZR1 & ZR2) that stall early.

These are all 2000mA motors, originally setup to 1800mA but now setup to run at 2000mA.

I am also attaching two heat camera shots that show the difference between X1 and X2 after approx 12 hours of printing inside the enclosure with a filter-fan pulling out the warm air (in this case testing with PLA - would recycle for the likes of ABS).

Can't figure out what I am missing. I have not yet upgraded to 3.X as I wanted to get everything up and running and tuned first before introducing another significant change.

Diagnostics:

M122
=== Diagnostics ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet version 2.05 running on Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
Board ID: XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX 
Used output buffers: 3 of 24 (14 max)
=== RTOS ===
Static ram: 25712
Dynamic ram: 94140 of which 0 recycled
Exception stack ram used: 472
Never used ram: 10748
Tasks: NETWORK(ready,628) HEAT(blocked,1176) DUEX(suspended,160) MAIN(running,1300) IDLE(ready,160)
Owned mutexes:
=== Platform ===
Last reset 04:58:20 ago, cause: software
Last software reset at 2020-06-08 16:06, reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 10732 bytes (slot 0)
Software reset code 0x0003 HFSR 0x00000000 CFSR 0x00000000 ICSR 0x0441f000 BFAR 0xe000ed38 SP 0xffffffff Task 0x4e49414d
Error status: 0
Free file entries: 8
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
SD card longest block write time: 48.4ms, max retries 0
MCU temperature: min 37.6, current 40.2, max 41.2
Supply voltage: min 23.8, current 23.9, max 24.2, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0, power good: yes
Driver 0: ok, SG min/max 246/1023
Driver 1: ok, SG min/max 48/1023
Driver 2: ok, SG min/max 74/1023
Driver 3: ok, SG min/max 0/1023
Driver 4: standstill, SG min/max not available
Driver 5: ok, SG min/max 81/1023
Driver 6: ok, SG min/max 141/1023
Driver 7: ok, SG min/max 121/1023
Driver 8: ok, SG min/max 140/1023
Driver 9: standstill, SG min/max not available
Date/time: 2020-06-08 21:04:25
Cache data hit count 4294967295
Slowest loop: 75.47ms; fastest: 0.07ms
I2C nak errors 0, send timeouts 0, receive timeouts 0, finishTimeouts 0, resets 0
=== Move ===
Hiccups: 0, FreeDm: 153, MinFreeDm: 103, MaxWait: 1753764ms
Bed compensation in use: mesh, comp offset -0.044
=== DDARing ===
Scheduled moves: 28571, completed moves: 28552, StepErrors: 0, LaErrors: 0, Underruns: 0, 0
=== Heat ===
Bed heaters = 0 -1 -1 -1, chamberHeaters = -1 -1
Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.0
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.7
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 1
Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
Movement lock held by null
http is idle in state(s) 0
telnet is idle in state(s) 0
file is doing "G1 X188.375 Y199.424 E0.10137" in state(s) 0
serial is idle in state(s) 0
aux is idle in state(s) 0
daemon is idle in state(s) 0
queue is idle in state(s) 0
autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
=== Network ===
Slowest loop: 87.08ms; fastest: 0.00ms
Responder states: HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0) Telnet(0)
HTTP sessions: 1 of 8
- WiFi -
Network state is running
WiFi module is connected to access point
Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
WiFi firmware version 1.23
WiFi MAC address xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx
WiFi Vcc 3.37, reset reason Turned on by main processor
WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 24416
WiFi IP address 192.168.xx.xx
WiFi signal strength -48dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
Socket states: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
=== Filament sensors ===
Extruder 0 sensor: ok
Extruder 1 sensor: ok

config.g:

; Generated by Modix - 1.3
; Modified by fxstein 2020-05-31
;
; Changelog:

; Duet2Wifi Only:
; - Converted bed heater to Duet controller via k-coupler daughter board
; - Force join wireless network to support hidden SSID
; - Increased extruder max speed from 1200mm/min to 12000mm/min for quicker retractions
; - Increased extruder max acceleration from 250mm/s^2 to 8000mm/s^2 for quicker retractions
; - Increased extruder max instantaneous speed change from 120mm/min to 3000mm/min for quicker retractions
;   Quicker retractions aid in elimination of Volcano stringing
; - Equalize X and Y max instantaneous speed change from 300/500 to 300/300 to avoid inner wall separation during high infill speeds
; - Increase X and Y max speed to 12000mm/min or 200mm/s
; - Increase Z max speed from 200mm/min to 300mm/min or 5mm/s for quicker z-hops
; - Recalibrated extruder steps per mm
;
; Duet2Wifi + Duex5 (work in progress)
; - Split x-axis to individual drives 0+5
; - Setup stall control for both X and Y axis - now with individual motor control possible
; - Increase max speed for X & Y to 18000 or 300mm/s
; - Increase max acceleration for X & Y to 2000 mm/s^2
; - Increase max travel acceleration to 2000 mm/s^2
; - Increase X & Y max instantaneous speed change to 400 mm/min
; - Add Duet and Duex PWM fans
; - Switch permanent cooling tool cooling fans to temperature control
; - Increase max amperage for X & Y motors to 2000mA
; - Increase acceleration for X & Y to 4000mm/s^2 for testing  
;
; Modix Big-60, Dual Printhead

; General preferences
G90						; Send absolute coordinates...
M83						; ...but relative extruder moves

; Network
M550 P"BIG60V3"					; Set machine name
						; See secrets.g for setting passwords and sensitive information
; Set secrets and passwords
M98 P"secrets.g"

; Logging
M929 P"eventlog.txt" S1 			; Start logging to file eventlog.txt for e.g. stalls and other significant events

; Finish network setup
M552 P"IoT Network" S1				; Enable network and force join (if hidden) network
M586 P0 S1					; Enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0					; Disable FTP
M586 P2 S0					; Disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S1					; Physical drive 0 goes forwards. X-Axis. X1
M569 P1 S0					; Physical drive 1 goes backwards. Y-Axis.
M569 P2 S0					; Physical drive 2 goes backwards. Z-Axis. ZL1
M569 P3 S1					; Physical drive 3 goes forwards. E0-Extruder.
M569 P4 S0					; Physical drive 4 goes backwards. E1-Extruder.

; Duex5 expansion must come before M350 and M906
M569 P5 S0					; Physical drive 5 goes backwards. X-Axis. X2
M569 P6 S0					; Physical drive 6 goes backwards. Z-Axis. ZL2
M569 P7 S0					; Physical drive 7 goes backwards. Z-Axis. ZR1
M569 P8 S0					; Physical drive 8 goes backwards. Z-Axis. ZR2

; Setup combined axis
M584 X0:5					; combine drive 0 (X1) and 5 (X2) for X-Axis
M584 Z2:6:7:8					; combine drives 2 (ZL1), 6 (ZL2), 7 (ZR1), 8(ZR2) for Z-Axis

; Continue Drives setup
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1				; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X100 Y100 Z2000 E399			; Set steps per mm
M906 X2000 Y2000 Z1800 E1000 I30		; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in %
M84 S30						; Set idle timeout
;M915 X Y S5 H200 F1 R2				; Stall detection. For X & Y axis. Pause print
;M915 X Y S20 H200 F0 R1			; Stall detection. For X & Y axis. Just log it.
M915 X S15 H200 F0 R2				; Stall detection. For X axis. Pause print
M915 Y S17 H200 F0 R2				; Stall detection. For Y axis. Pause print
M915 Z S20 H200 F0 R2				; Stall detection. For Z axis. Pause print

; Speed Settings
M201 X3000 Y3000 Z150 E8000			; Set maximum accelerations (mm/s^2)					*
M203 X18000 Y18000 Z900 E12000			; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)						*
M204 P1000 T2000				; Set print and travel accelerations  (mm/s^2)				*
M566 X600 Y600 Z30 E3000			; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)			*
M593 F30					; Cancel ringing at 30Hz						*

; Axis Limits
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1				; Set axis minima
M208 X600 Y600 Z660 S0				; Set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 Y2 S1					; Set active low and disabled endstops

; Z-Probe
M574 Z2 S2					; Set endstops controlled by probe
;M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1				; Disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
M307 H7 A-1 C-1 D-1				; Disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch via PWM5 (Heater 7) on Duex5
;M558 P9 H5 F120 T6000 A1 R0.7			; Set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
M558 P9 H2 F120 T18000 A1 R0			; Set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
G31 P500 X-13 Y-18 Z2.546			; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height(Z-Offset)
M557 X0:580 Y0:580 P8:8				; Define mesh grid. 64 Points
M376 H10					; Height (mm) over which to taper off the bed compensation

; Z leadscrew positions - mainly when used with Duex5 expansion and individual z motor drivers
M671 X0:0:600:600 Y0:600:0:600			; Z leadscrews are approx at (0,0), (0,600), (600,0) and (600,600)

; Heaters
;Bed:
;M140 H-1					; To disable heated bed
M305 P0 X150					; Add K-type thermocoupler for bed heater
M140 H0						; Enable heated bed
M143 H0 S120					; Set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
;M307 H0 A# C# D# V# S1.0 B0			; PID calibration template
M307 H0 A19 C26 D4 V24 S1.0 B0			; PID calibration from macro run

;E0:
M305 P1 T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 R4700	; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1
M143 H1 S285					; Set temperature limit for heater 1 to 285C
;M307 H1 A# C# D# V# S1.0 B0			; PID calibration template
;M307 H1 A19 C26 D4 V24 S1.0 B0			; PID calibration from macro run

;E1:
M305 P2 T100000 B4725 C7.060000e-8 R4700	; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 2
M143 H2 S285					; Set temperature limit for heater 2 to 285C
;M307 H2 A# C# D# V# S1.0 B0			; PID calibration template
;M307 H2 A19 C26 D4 V24 S1.0 B0			; PID calibration from macro run

; Fans
M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 C"E0 Print Fan"		; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
M106 P1 S0 I0 F500 H-1 C"E1 Print Fan"		; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
; Duex5 expansion
M106 P2 T35:65 B10 H100:101:102 C"Duet Fan"	; Thermostatic fan to cool the Duet2
M106 P3 T35:65 B10 H100:101:102 C"Duex Fan"	; Thermostatic fan to cool the Duex5
M106 P4 T40:50 B10 H1 C"E0 Cool Fan"		; Thermostatic fan for cool side of E0 only when tool is heated
M106 P5 T40:50 B10 H2 C"E1 Cool Fan"		; Thermostatic fan for cool side of E1 only when tool is heated

; Tools
M563 P0 S"E0" D0 H1 F0				; Define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0					; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R190 S210				; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
M563 P1 S"E1" D1 H2 F1				; Define tool 1
G10 P1 X0 Y51.5 Z0				; Set tool 1 axis offsets
G10 P1 R190 S210				; Set initial tool 1 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Automatic power saving
M911 S22.5 R29.0 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000"	; Set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss. Power Failure Pause

; LED Lights - Duex5
M307 H6 A-1 C-1 D-1				; Use heater 5 for LED lights on Duex5
M42 P6 S1.0					; Set full bright

; Custom settings
;M564 H0 S0					; Negative movements are allowed
G29 S1						; Load the height map from file and activate bed compensation
;M915 P1 S4 H400 F1 R2				; Stall detection. For Y motor. Pause print moved to drive section
M591 D0 P1 C3 S1				; Regular filament sensor for E0
M591 D1 P1 C4 S1				; Regular filament sensor for E1
;M581 E2 S1 T0 C0				; Optional external switch for emergency stop
;M593 F40					; Cancel ringing at 40Hz
;M592 D0 A0.01 B0.0005 L0.25			; The amount of extrusion requested is multiplied by (1 + min(L, A*v + B*v^2)) where v is the requested extrusion speed (calculated from the actual speed at which the move will take place) in mm/sec.
;M592 D1 A0.01 B0.0005 L0.25			; The amount of extrusion requested is multiplied by (1 + min(L, A*v + B*v^2)) where v is the requested extrusion speed (calculated from the actual speed at which the move will take place) in mm/sec.

X1 heat signature (51.9C):

X2 heat signature (38.1C):

I have probably missed some important information - please let me know if I did.

Your help is very much appreciated.

fxstein

Forgot to mention - these are all identical motors on all axis (except the extruders)

jay_s_uk

I'm guessing that the motors for the remainder in the group are getting whatever the default amps setting is.

Have you tried explicitly setting the currents for each motor?

e.g.

M906 X2000:2000 Y2000 Z1800:1800:1800:1800 E1000 I30

Its also not recommended to run at maximum current but more in the 70-90% mark.

deckingman

@fxstein Try explicitly assigning all your motors to axes and extruders in your M584. Currently you have only assigned motors to X and Z. When you do that, it doesn't necessarily remove the default assignment unless you explicitly make it so, and strange things can happen. So your M584 needs to have settings for Y and any Es as well as X and Z.

fxstein

@jay_s_uk said in Asymetric motor amperage on combined axis:

I'm guessing that the motors for the remainder in the group are getting whatever the default amps setting is.

Thought so too.

Have you tried explicitly setting the currents for each motor?

e.g.
M906 X2000:2000 Y2000 Z1800:1800:1800:1800 E1000 I30

I have not tried that mainly because @dc42 says not to do it in various threads on the forum. Will test to see if it makes a difference.

Its also not recommended to run at maximum current but more in the 70-90% mark.

Thank you! Well aware of the motor limits - have been discussed in multiple threads. With microstepping you can actually go over 100% if needed. It’s a question of torque needed vs weight and resulting speed/acceleration capabilities.

The reason I am always measuring is to make sure I am operation within safe margins of error. 50-60C after extended runs are totally within spec for the motors I am using.

Having said so, I fully expect to be able to lower to motor amperage once I get them all symmetrical.

Once again Thank you!

fxstein

@deckingman said in Asymetric motor amperage on combined axis:

@fxstein Try explicitly assigning all your motors to axes and extruders in your M584. Currently you have only assigned motors to X and Z. When you do that, it doesn't necessarily remove the default assignment unless you explicitly make it so, and strange things can happen. So your M584 needs to have settings for Y and any Es as well as X and Z.

Thank you!

To be hontest I still don’t fully understand the ‘default assignments’ part. I guess I was thinking that because I am using all Duet2 WiFi drivers in their default assignments that all extra motors/channels on the Duex5 are the only ones I have to worry about.

Also the default config on the Modix did not come with an M584 to begin with - and I just kept adding on.

Makes total sense to define all motors/axis and even if it only to have a clean definition.

Will try and report back.

Other than measuring the motor temps, is there any way to tell what amperage or load any particular driver is running at? Can the SG values of the M122 be leveraged for that? (Trying to get to a systematic and then automated approach to validate optimal operation Of a particular system)

Thank you very much!

deckingman

@fxstein You could try sending just M906 with no parameters but I'm pretty sure that it will return the motor currents for each axis, not for each motor. That's because of this little snippet from the wiki for M906 https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M906_Set_motor_currents

quote...................

"Example: If you have two motors on your Z axis, physically connected to Z and E0 stepper drivers, configured with M584 Z2:3, set M906 Z200, not M906 Z200:200"

..........end of quote

So motor currents are (should be) set per axis, not per motor and each motor should get the same setting.

One way to force asymmetric (or symmetric) currents is to use additional axes. So for example if you have M584 X0:3 then create two axis for X and U instead by using M584 X0 U3. Then set the motor currents for each of the X and U axis using M906. Then finally remap both motors to X by using M584 X0:3 and you'll find that the motor currents retain their initial settings rather than "inherit" the setting for the axis. (at least that is what DC42 told me a long while ago in another thread on a different topic).

There is of course another possibility, which is that the difference in temperature you noticed is caused by a difference in load on each motor. Belt tension or some sort of friction might cause that to happen. Or possibly a difference in (passive) cooling. Are the motor mounts identical? Are the motors subjected to the same air flow (if any exists)?

fxstein

@deckingman I first thought of all the same reasons you mention for X. And I have read the wiki.

But then I see the exact same behavior on the Z-axis with the one motor on the Duet running significantly hotter than the other 3 on the Duex.

And there is a significant difference in the Stallguard numbers for X1 vs X2 and the same for ZL1 vs ZL2/ZR1/ZR2.

Need to wait for a current larger print to finish before I can try out the earlier suggestions. Thanks!

deckingman

@fxstein I'm not sure if this will work but you could try sending M584 U6 V7 W8. This would create three new axes using the additional Z motors 6,7 and 8. In theory, if you don't specify a motor current for them, then they should "inherit" the motor current from your M906 Z setting in config.g. So then if you send M906 without any additional parameters, you should get a report back of the setting for all axes. If things are working as expected, then the reported current for Z U V and W should all be the same and they should match the value you set in M906 in config.g (for Z). If they are not, then it looks like you've unearthed a hitherto unknown bug (unless my suggested test method is flawed and some other default value for motor current is applied when new axes are created).

fxstein

@deckingman Just ran an M906 while the print is running. And I think you were right all along with the axis default assignment.
Could not find any documentation to explaining the default assignments.

It looks like ALL Duex5 channels are by default assigned as extruders. I assumed only the Duet channels had default assignments.

M906
Motor current (mA) - X:2000, Y:2000, Z:1800, E:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000, idle factor 30%

So I have been testing and tuning the machine with 4 out of 7 motors running at 50% of their current. Cannot wait to change that and retune...

Soon time to switch to 3.x and forget all those default assignments...

Overnight print is at 92%...
Screen Shot 2020-06-09 at 11.04.58 AM.png

deckingman

@fxstein Looks like you have a reason and a solution so all good yes?

fxstein

@deckingman

Just getting to it now that the print has finished.

First I did try your suggestion:

M584 U6 V7 W8
; followed by
M906
Motor current (mA) - X:2000, Y:2000, Z:1800, U:1000, V:1000, W:1000, E:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000:1000, idle factor 30%

It is validating the theory that the drivers on the Duex have default assignments of extruders and as such inheriting the amperage of those. Running the M906 without parameters was a good start and unmapping the axis confirmed that. Need to remember that.

Ok. Changed config.g drive mapping to:

; Setup combined axis
M584 X0:5					; combine drive 0 (X1) and 5 (X2) for X-Axis
M584 Y1						; single drive 1 for Y-Axis
M584 Z2:6:7:8					; combine drives 2 (ZL1), 6 (ZL2), 7 (ZR1), 8(ZR2) for Z-Axis
M584 E3:4					; only 2 extruders to release the remaining Duex5 drivers from default extruder mapping

When I now run M906 and also unmap the axis I get:

M906
Motor current (mA) - X:2000, Y:2000, Z:1800, E:1000:1000, idle factor 30%

M584 U6 V7 W8
M906
Motor current (mA) - X:2000, Y:2000, Z:1800, U:1800, V:1800, W:1800, E:1000:1000, idle factor 30%

SHowing the correct motor amperages for all motors involved (same for the second X-axis). That solved the mystery.

Summary
Basically all drivers on the Duex5 are by default mapped as extruders. All axis and all extruders should explicitly be mapped to their respective axis. This can be done by multiple M584 statements (like I did by axis in order to better document) and in no specific order as long as all of them come before the likes of M350 and M906.

I will mark this thread as SOLVED. Thank you very much for your help getting to the bottom of this.

fxstein

FYI: Tried to mark the original post as (SOLVED) but being told by the forum that I can only edit a post for 3600 seconds

deckingman

@fxstein For info, prior to gen 3, I think the defaults are X0, Y1, Z2 and every driver after that defaults to being an extruder. So that includes any other drivers on the main board and all drivers on any expansion board (Duex2 or Duex5).