Posts made by kiki0000

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

would like to see Hungary for myself

I would recommend to visit lake Balaton (Plattensee) . It is really nice and huge.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

The thing about the unusable area because of the offset Z assembly is annoying, but not a broken leg.

I could somehow make my print head smaller and putting the BL touch closer to the head. Then I would get my ca 30mm back.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

In all the years I have only used the complete print bed for one printed part, there was only a few mm of space at the edge.

I think I have never printed full bed...

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Oh, you live in Germany, where about?

I live in Munich.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Then you can speak German and I'll break one off here to write it in such a way that even a cryptic translation can still be understood.

I can speak German a little bit but English is definitely better for me.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Where should we go at the turn of the year (relocation)... in the south?

I am originally hungarian and we will move back there. We bought a house there (around Munich this is impossible) and now I will have a nice workshop at home (basically 2 because an electrical and a mechanical in the garage) I am super excited.

@rogerpodacter this is how my heightmap looks like. I definitely have a higher band on the left side but now it is straight and the prints look perfect.

Thank you for the support.

@kiki0000 said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

@norder

@norder it turned out perfect on the entire surface really close to the sides too. Ignore that single ca 5x5 mm spot on the fron left short piece (picture is rotate 90 deg to the right now...). All around is perfect so it was jsut some grease on the plate. It is nice to work on the print surface....
I hope it will stay like this now forever

Thank you for all the support.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

But this plan is important for you after I have calculated my level points.

At first thank you for the detailed comment again.
I have done a similar CAD drawing already in the morning the only difference was that I did not put hte G31 points onto the line pointing into the middle of the bed only the same distance from the Z axes in all 3 cases. Now I changed this according to your proposal.
This is how it looks like (I know it i sa mess just because I wanted to put all the measurements from the frame etc onto the drawing.)
The biggest rectangle is my frame (I cannot reach with the current setup the rear 5mm of the bed this is why my max Y limit is 305. I know this is stupid because I could move the complete Z assmebly 5-10mm forward and then I could reach it but I have just done some changes and I was too lazy to do this up to now ).
The bed is clearly the 310 x 310. Furhtermore you can see the 3 outside points (41mm from the frame on both sides ) for the 3 axis and the 3 inner points on the lines now are the probing points for the G32 (262mm is my max Y reach point on the right for the BL touch).

This is how my heightmap looks like with a narrow space all around (after the Y axis realignment now this is on the same level in the entire bed length but ca 0.13mm higher than the rest of teh bed.).

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

I saw that your axis limits are not quite OK.
At minimal you have a positive value (X2).
M208 X2 Y-40 Z0 S1 ; set axis minimum
And at maximum you have a value that is smaller than the actual print bed (Y303).
M208 X320 Y303 Z300 S0 ; set axis maxima

As I wrote above I am limited at 305mm at the moment because of the bed position on the actuan assembly. I will later on move the complete Z assembly forward by 10-15mm.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Yes, sometimes it is a bit confusing whether the offset values ​​of the probe are taken into account or whether you have to do it yourself.
If you enter G30 without coordinates, then the probe measures where the print head is currently located.
If it is to be a specific point that is to be measured, such as X20 Y30, then you have to go there beforehand with G1 and calculate the offset yourself, i.e. G1 X78 Y30.
Your new probe offsets are included here.

Yes, little bit confusing but now I already figured out which is taking into account the offset and which not. Thanks a lot

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

I hope Google doesn't translate it into cryptic and it helps you get there.

No, it was perfect. Thanks for the lots of help again

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Not many people have such a nice, flat and uniformly green heightmap as @rogerpodacter has, which does not mean that the first layer cannot be printed absolutely perfectly

Unfortunatley not... and this is my 2nd cast alu bed for a hell amount of money.......

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Measure the area where the BLTouch goes after the conversion, remember the M564 command I gave you in comment #15.
Measure the points and coordinates from the example sketch.
Changing the axis limits in the config.g with the new insights from the M564 thingy.

I have done these all now I am just printing my test.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

So I have to vote now. Today is elected here in Germany / Lower Saxony.
I hope there will be positive changes after that.
It can't go on like this.

Haha By the way I am also living in Germany at the moment (since 4 years) but I am moving in 1,5 month

@norder and @rogerpodacter after correcting the Y rail alignment the heightmap looks pretty good. No more slope on hte left side.
But my first layer is still not perfect especially on the left side.

Maybe now it is really the BL touch?

@norder and @rogerpodacter I 3D drew my printer with the correct positions and really certains things were off. Now I perfectly symmetrically defined everything. All the Z axis probe points are an eqal distance from the axes, everything is in line etc. The 3 axis automatic leveling is now really finding the right plane in no time.
This is how my heightmap looks like:

As you can see from the left view I definitely have an alignment problem with one of the Y rail. There is a nice slope in it. So I will try to compensate this now and lets see... This might have happened when I lifted up my heavy printer at the rail and put it down. Something might have shifted although I have now idea how was this possible because everything is perfectly definted by the aluminium brackets.... Lets see...

My bed.g

M561
G28	
G90
			; home all axis bb
;M557 X30:280 Y64:296 S50:50                           ; define mesh grid
G30 P0 X53 Y155 Z-99999  ; probe near a leadscrew, half way along Y axis
G30 P1 X260 Y281 Z-99999  ; probe near a leadscrew, half way along Y axis
G30 P2 X260 Y28 Z-99999 S3  ; probe near a leadscrew and calibrate 3 motors

My config.g

G90                                                ; send absolute coordinates...
M83                                                ; ...but relative extruder moves
M550 P"Kikicube"                                   ; set printer name
M575 P1 S1 B57600 

M669 K1                                            ; select CoreXY mode

; Network
M552 S1                                            ; enable network
M586 P0 S1                                         ; enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0                                         ; disable FTP
M586 P2 S0                                         ; disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S1                                  ; physical drive 0 goes forwards
M569 P1 S0                              ; physical drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S1                                         ; physical drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S0                                         ; physical drive 3 goes forwards
M569 P4 S1                                         ; physical drive 4 goes forwards
M569 P6 S0

M584 X0 Y1 Z2:4:6 E3 P3                         ; set drive mapping
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1                            ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92  X80.2 Y80.2 Z400.00 E882                ; set steps per mm
M566 X700.00 Y700.00 Z240.00 E2000.00                ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X12000.00 Y12000.00 Z1000.00 E2000.00          ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X3000.00 Y3000.00 Z100.00 E5600.00             ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
;M593 F66
M906 X900 Y900 Z550 E450 I30                     ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30                                            ; Set idle timeout
M671 X-50:363:363 Y155:281:28 S15 		  		   ; leadscrews at left and right of X axis

M572 D0 S0.03					   				   ; pressure advance 0,1
M592 D0 A-0.00971 B0.003424	   		   			   ;non-linear extrusion


; Axis Limits
M208 X2 Y-40 Z0 S1                                 ; set axis minima
M208 X320 Y303 Z300 S0                             ; set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 S1 P"xstop"                                ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin xstop
M574 Y2 S1 P"ystop"                                ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Y via pin ystop
M574 Z1 S2                                         ; configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z

; Z-Probe
M558 P9 C"^zprobe.in" H6 F300 T12000       ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
M950 S0 C"duex.pwm1"                             ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch

G31 P500 X-58 Y0 Z2.55                             ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
M557 X20:260 Y20:290 P9                          ; define mesh grid
;M557 X60:242 Y75:240 S40                           ; define mesh grid



; Heaters

M308 S0 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 R4700     ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin bedtemp
M950 H0 C"bed_heat" Q10 T0                              ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0
M140 H0                                            ; map heated bed to heater 0
M143 H0 S120                                       ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
M307 H0 B0 S1.00                                   ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit

M308 S1 P"e0temp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 R4700      ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin e0temp
M950 H1 C"e0heat" T1                               ; create nozzle heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 1
M143 H1 S260                                       ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 260C
M307 H1 B0 S1.0                                 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater  and set PWM limit
M307 H1 A573.2 C177.0 D7.3 V23.8 B0 S1.0                
;Heater 1 model: gain 573.2, time constant 177.0, dead time 7.3, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 23.8, mode PID
;Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P7.5, I0.209, D38.6
;Computed PID parameters for load change: P7.5, I0.406, D38.6

M307 H0 A61.3 C251.9 D3.4 B0 S1.0 V23.9
;Heater 0 model: gain 61.3, time constant 251.9, dead time 3.4, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 23.9, mode PID
;Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P217.1, I7.439, D513.5
;Computed PID parameters for load change: P217.1, I19.173, D513.5

; Fans
M950 F0 C"fan0" Q500                               ; create fan 0 on pin fan0 and set its frequency
M106 P0 H-1                                     ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
M950 F1 C"fan1" Q500 ; create fan 1 on pin fan1 and set its frequency
M106 P1 X0.75 H1 T45    ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned on
;M950 F8 C"duex.fan8" 
;M106 P8 S250 H-1								   ; PSU cooler fan

; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H1 F0                                   ; define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                                    ; set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0                                       ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Custom settings are not defined

; Miscellaneous
M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-1 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss
;M501;

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

No, it can be compared to the spring steel plate and the PEI.
However, it is more dimensionally stable than spring steel and retains its shape after bending.
It is slightly lighter than the spring steel plate.
I just measured both plates again.
The spring steel with PEI is almost 1.8mm thick.
The black print is 1.9mm.

Thanks for the info.
I will go and grab one with a magnetic sheet and my bed magnets and the sheet magnet will grab onto each other.

@rogerpodacter said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

y 3 probe points were taken from the online example, and this gave me problems where my LEFT FRONT corner was always higher than the rest of the bed. I finally solved this issue by realizing the probe points must be symmetrical. Its all about the G29 G32 level command.

Yes, this is still my problem. I will go ahead and really define all the bed probing points and Z axis points simmetrically.
What I find a little bit strange that certain commands are taking into account the offset of the probe others not and this is nowhere really documented (at least I could not find these comments at the G29 and G32 command in the doku). Ok, for sure I can see while testing if it is off by 50mm or not but anyway it would be easier if they would all show the same.
One thing I never really tought about is that it is really important that the probe points for the 3 Z axis must also be simmetrical to everything. I thought 3 points are defining a shape and as soon as my Z axis points are properly defined it should be able to calculate from this wherever I probe. But it looks likie this i snot the case. I also started to mess with my Y rails to compensate for the bed misalignment on on side but maybe this is similarly to you not really my problem.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

That's why I pointed out in post #6 that the measuring points in the bed.g file are not symmetrical.
I don't know the new coordinates, but @kiki0000 wrote in post #8 that he has now arranged the measuring points symmetrically.

I did not even mention to you yet that after putting my printer back to its original place mesh bed leveling wasn't perfect again. Significantly bettern then before but not perfect. So now I will really define all the probing points to

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Do you have individual magnets permanently installed in your print bed ?

Yes, I do have individual magnets and I fear if I would order this 0,5mm FR4 sheet the magnets would bend it at each and every point. I assume this sheet in 0,5mm thickness is pretty flexible.
So I will contact with the guy.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

This is absolutely no problem with ABS+ from Minadax, it hardly smells at all.

OK, though if it does not smell it does not mean it is healthy

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

The FR4 is only 0.5mm thick. If I set 60°C in the DWC, it also becomes 60°C in the middle and around 2°C less towards the edge.

This sounds good.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

It's the Blackprint from Printbay

I have checked this now. I have a bed with embedded magnets. I know that in general FR4 is like resin so it is not magnetic so do I need to glue a magnetic foil onto the FR4? Or there is already 1 magnetic sheet on the FR4 sheet and they give an other one to glue onto the bed?
Because as I see I can jsut buy separately the FR4 sheet.
https://printbay.eu/Ersatzplatte-Blackprint-Magnetsystem-BP

If it works so well I will give it a go. It is not expensive at all... Those low tempeartures are super impressive too.
I will also check the filaments you proposed. I usually only use PETG and PLA. I would use ABS but at the moment I am living in a flat and I do not want to use ABS in the room Although at the end of the year we will move into our house so my options will increase.

Thank you for the detailed summary. I really appreciate it.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

That a corner goes up a bit isn't bad, it's compensated by the MBL.

Yes, exactly. Furthermore it is really rare that I print really big objects....

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

IIt's probably from bending the pressure plate to loosen the pressure parts.

Yes, something might have happened with it. It is already 2 years old so no wonder to be honest.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

But my main pressure plate is an FR4 with a magnetic plate glued underneath, which doesn't get any stress from bending

I have heard about this PCB material as bed. My only concern is that this is a super good thermal insulator material.
How much higher temp do you have to set to reach the requested temp on the top?
Are these bare FR4 plates without copper I assume? Maybe it would even be better if the bottom layer would be copper coated because this would spread the heat amazingly.
Does this work with most of the materials? (PLA, PETG, ABS)
How high temperatures do you have to set for these?

Sorry for the lots of questions

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Getting the BLTouch as close as possible to Y0 with the nozzle is probably the best solution in your case, as @Phaedrux already explained.

I have done this now and put the BL touch on the left in line with the X axis and the result is amazing. I have lost now ca 40mm on the right side of the bed but I do not care. There were really something with the X rail.
Look at the first layer now with just some random 0,2mm thick 50x50mm rectangles.

Furthermore my bed is also pretty damn flat. There is something on the rear left corner and some deeper points. At first I though those blue deeper points are because of the magnets but I have put 2 of the rectangles on the exact point and they are also perfect.

Thank you for your support! I am really happy now. Lost ca 4-5 evenings with this issue

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Let's assume that the linear rail of the X-axis is twisted.
Then one way to find out would be to dismantle the rail and turn it 180° to reinstall it.

So the X rail is flipped over. It looks slightly different now but it is weird that now it looks like the front left is the slightly higher point and not the rear left corner. I would have expected now that this moves to the front right corner. Although due to the reason that I have the 3 axis bed leveling and I have 2 Z axis on the right this could compensate for it and maybe this is why it is now showing up on the fron left.
But to be honest the end result is the same. Still during printing the left side is closer to the bed. Shall I go to mess with the Y extrusions (although this su*ks because lots of bolted on componenets here )?

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

You should think twice about moving the BLTouch. Then you would also have a more stable mount, these inserts as spacers do not look very confidence-inspiring.

I think I should do this but the problem is that my head is really wide already so I would loose a hell amount of width on the print bed. But maybe just to try it works it would worth a try...

@phaedrux said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Another way to verify if it's tilt or skew is to set the probe type to manual (M558 P0) and then use the same trigger height check at various positions. Manual probe mode prompts you to jog the Z axis down.

Thank you for the lots of support. I will give this a go tomorrow. I am way too tired already because of this. It was enough for today

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

To do this, correct the axis limits in config.g.
There you have Y10 at minimum, so the MBL is also cut off at 60 below.
For maximum I would enter X310 Y310.

Thanks for the explanation. Then my understanding was correct. I have made this few cahnges and now I ahve a mesh from the complete bed except teh first ca 30mm.
But I assume this wasn't my issue because within the mesh it should still work fine but it does not.
According to the recommendation of @Phaedrux I have checked the trigger height at a few points and it looks like I have a small deviation checking it on a few points. It looks like I have some skew in the rails but I do not really understand how. This printer is a BLV MGN Cube with the metal conversion which is aligning itself all the alu extrusions. The MGN rails are original Hiwin. I have no idea what could go wrong and how to chcek what is wrong....

@phaedrux said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

I suspect that your probe trigger height may be varying depending on the XY position. Perhaps due to tilt on the X axis, or skew in the Y rails. Those are the common reasons anyway.
To test this, please check the trigger height at various locations on the bed and see if they are consistent

Yes, I can definitely see 0,04-0,05mm deviation on certain points. And this is roughly the deviation I have in the layer height too.
Quickly I have replaced the 2020 extrusion but it did not help. Tomorrow I try to do some changes on the Y rails.
Do you have any idea how could I check if this is the issue?

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

@kiki0000
It looks like the mesh is not loading at all.
If you delete the heightmap.csv file from the system directory and run G29, will a new heightmap.csv be created afterwards

Yes, if I delete the heightmap and run G29 afterwards, it is recreated automatically.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

First of all, the measuring range could definitely be larger, test where the BLTouch can measure anywhere on the print bed.

I have redefined now the mesh to make it close to as big as the bed. As you also mentioned the only part what I cannot reach is the front side of the bed. Furthermore I use now P9.
But I assume this should not effect printing if the part is anyway within the meshed area, right?

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Actually, you couldn't have read the text at all, because I deleted it again only 10 seconds after posting it.

Haha, I am quick

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

You first heat up the print bed with the Slicer GCode, so you start the print... the print bed is heated up... the print bed is leveled... an MBL is created... the nozzle heats up and the print starts.
Right ?

No, basically as soon as I turn on the printer I heat up the bed and leave it soak for at least 5 minutes before I start the print or even do the auto bed leveling and/or mesh bed leveling.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

To do this, home the printer and use the DWC to see where the BLTouch comes from (not the nozzle).

You confused me now a little bit with this. Shall I put in the mesh the coordinates where the nozzle would be or where the Bl touch is?
This is the new mesh area:

M557 X10:300 Y-20:300 P9                          ; define mesh grid

This is what I have got with the redifined mesh. It is weird to me. The nozzle can go in Y direction to -20 so basically the minimum mesh point could be 34. But it starts at 60.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Not only does it look like the heightmap isn't loaded before printing, it actually is. In your Slicer Start GCode, the S1 parameter is missing from the G29 command.
Complete the G29 command so that it looks like this

As far as I know G29 means the same like G29 S0 which is doing the probing before the print and afterwards applying it. Isn't it?
I will give it an other go now but I have already tried this before. Lets see.
Thanks for this hint.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

t's not the plastic pin of the BLTouch.
The BLTouch has a HAL sensor in the upper area that reacts to magnetic fields.
A tiny magnet is embedded at the upper end of the pin, to which the HAL sensor reacts.
How does the problem appear?

Yes, I know how it works but to be honest I did not expect that the magnetic field of the magnet is affecting it from ca 50mm away.
Furthermore I have seen before at a few people that when it is affecting there is all of a sudden like a huge mountain is showing u on the heightmap. mine is quite quite stable, there are only slight gradual variations on the bed if you check my previous answer above.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

How does the problem appear?

The problem is like it would not correct enough. One side of the bed is perfect and on the other side it is starting to be worse and worse. I would say the error is maybe like max 0,05mm. See picture:

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

@kiki0000
I find the X0 and Y54 strange for an offset for a BLTouch.
Is it mounted on the back of the X-rail?

Yes, the Bl touch is behind the X rail. This is the only position I have free space.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Also the measurement points in your bed.g file look weird to me for a 320mm x320mm print bed.
It doesn't look symmetrical.

The bed is 310mm and you are right it wasn't symmetrical until now because of space constrains. Now I rebuilt the Z axis and put them completely symmetric (furthermore updated the config.g, the bed.g and the homing files) but the result/the bed mesh is completely the same.

@norder said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Please show us photos of your printer.
I need to be able to get an idea of it.

A few pictures.

I really appreciate your support.

@phaedrux said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Can you share a screen shot of the height map being displayed?

@phaedrux said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Can you confirm that the probe is in line with the nozzle in X and 54mm in front of it?

Yes, the probe is in line with the nozzle in X direction but it is behind the nozzle not in front of it. This is why it is defined as "Y54". Is this correct?

@phaedrux said in Mesh bed compensation issue:

Can you share your homeall and slicer start gcode as well?

G91                    ; relative positioning
G1 H2 Z5 F6000         ; lift Z relative to current position
G1 H1 X-355 Y355 F5000 ; move quickly to X or Y endstop and stop there (first pass)
G1 H1 X-355            ; home X axis
G1 H1 Y355             ; home Y axis
G1 X5 Y-5 F4800        ; go back a few mm
G1 H1 X-355 F360       ; move slowly to X axis endstop once more (second pass)
G1 H1 Y355             ; then move slowly to Y axis endstop
G90                    ; absolute positioning
G1 X166 Y176 F10000 ; go to first probe point
G30                    ; home Z by probing the bed

Slicer g code:

M140 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; Raise bed temp to profile requested bed temp
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; Wait for bed temp to rise
G32 ; Autocalibrate bed
G29 ;
M104 S[first_layer_temperature] T0 ; Raise hot-end temp to profile requested hot-end layer 1 temp
M109 S[first_layer_temperature] T0 ; Wait for hot-end temp to rise to profile requested hot-end layer 1 temp

G92 E0 ; reset extrusion distance

But I have tried with and without G32, with and without homing afterwards etc, nothing worked.