Fans are preventing hot end from getting up to temperature
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Hey all I'm tuning a E3d hotend with the E3d Toolchanger I had tunes a creality hotend that came with an ender 5 with out issue but once i switched to the e3d v6 I haven't been able to get through the tuning cycle. The cooling fan comes on at 50C even when its not supposed to (in the beginning it's my understanding that the tuning cycle starts with no fans) and the hot end cant get over 120c. With out fans the hot end has no problem getting up to temperature. Even the part cooling fan seems to affect hotend temperature. Any Ideas?
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Update now the hotend won't get up to temp at all I know everything is plugged in correctly I wonder if my old tuning from the Creality hot end is causing this.
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@ajdriscod how would your 'old' tuning affect this at all? It can't!
I would look at bad connections providing partial power. When I was running at 12V and had a set of Dupont connectors in the line, I would get overheating of the connector because I exceeded the current handling capacity of the Dupont connection. It's much less of a problem at 24V but the connectors are cheap Chinese connectors and it shows.
Verify that the connections on the controller are tight. There have been instances of clamping screws coming loose which caused a poor connection which in turn caused the connector to overheat and cause all kinds of problems. -
@jens55 All the connections for power are secure I'm not exactly excited about the thermistor connection but its connected and reporting a value.
I'm using 24v but did have to modify some of the e3d connectors to work with the duet board but they all seem secure, I've been playing with it since posting I've disconnected all of the fans and got it to tune to 220 but as soon as I plug them back in the tuning goes down the drain.
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@ajdriscod I assume you have tuned it while specifying how much fan to use? Maybe go down to 50% fan and see if it tunes and if it does, sneak up on your preferred fan power %.
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@jens55 how would that be specified in the m303 command?
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@ajdriscod M303 T3 P1 S240 F0.80 This is for tool 3 (T3), 100% heater power (P1) tune to 240C (S240) tune at 80% fan (F080)
It will tune without fan first and after that is done it will turn the fan on and tune again. -
@jens55 Thanks! I'll give that a go and report back.
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@jens55 Also, will that 80% fan setting (if that's what I end up going with) be specified in the M307 for the config, or will I have to incorporate that on the fan side of the config. For my other issue is the part cooling fan supposed to come on during tuning? I don't have it set to thermostatic so I'm not sure why it comes on at the specified 50c.
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@ajdriscod the tuning parameters are totally independent of the config settings. When you run the command, tuning will start without the fan. It will go through all it's song and dance and once the tuning without fan has finished, it will power up the fan to whatever you specified and do the tuning again. It will put up a message that it is tuning with the fan on.
A part cooling fan should never be thermostatically controlled. Use the thermostatic mode for the hot end cooling fan. The hot end cooling fan will come on at the thermostatic setting and stay on. It should not affect tuning at all.
Remember that tuning needs to start with a room temperature nozzle to get a good result.If it is not clear, the hot end cooling fan will always be on, it has to be on when the nozzle is hot. We are only talking about the part cooling fan when we talk about tuning with the fan on. The hot end fan should not cool the hot block to any degree, it just cools the area above the heat break (yes, a bit of air will leak below the heat break). The part cooling fan on the other hand blows a lot of air at and around the nozzle so it affects tuning a lot.
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@jens55 I just started tuning and the fan is on its already preventing the hot end from getting above 120c
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@jens55 maybe i can try a lower frequency? I'm not to familiar with PWM fans
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@ajdriscod, I have no idea what you are doing but something is majorly wrong! I don't know what to suggest next. Why is the part cooling fan coming on at the start of tuning? Are we talking about the same thing?
Just out of curiosity, please post a picture of the hot end with the hot end fan - preferrably a side view so I can see the hot end and the fan in relation to it. -
@ajdriscod, don't mess with the frequency for now. If the fan turns on at all you are golden (again, we are talking part cooling fan and not the hot end fan). The hot end fan is either off or full on.
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@jens55 I was wrong the part end fan is not coming on but the hot end fan is from the very beginning also seems when I unplugged the hotend fan to get a tune it melted slightly...whoops pics coming shortly.
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@ajdriscod LOL, yes. I have melted things before by switching the connectors between hot end fan and part cooling fan .... Luckily I noticed it pretty darn fast.
Just to be clear, the hot end fan NEEDS to be on. Never run the hot end without the hot end fan. It can cause all manner of problems including plugged hot end and, if you are not running a full metal hot end, it will damage the filament tube where it meets the hot end. The only way to run the hot end without the hot end cooling fan is if you are trying to clear a clog and this is only done with the hot end removed from the carriage and nowhere near any plastic parts.
If you ran the system without a hot end fan and you are not using an all metal hot end, it is probably a good idea to take the hot end apart to check the filament guide tube. This would be done before you try to run any filament through the hot end because you can cause the mother of all clogs if the guide tube end was melted.
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@jens55 the part cooling fan picture left with the shroud DOES NOT come on unless i mess with the fan control on the main dashboard. the hot end fan pictured on the right and drooping slightly (OK alot) comes on if the hot end gets over 50C
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@ajdriscod other than the drooping, that all looks ok. The drooping shouldn't affect anything. If the hot end is configured to come on at 50C than it is behaving exactly as it should.
So, if you are trying to tune, the hot end fan comes on but the hot end never gets hot enough then there is something else going on.
A bit of a wild guess but ... (and I am too lazy to read through the entire exchange) could it be that you are running 12V to a 24V heater? That would result in 1/4 of the rated power and could easily cause these kinds of issues. -
@jens55 I'm running 24v the board sensors are reading Vin: 23.8v V12: 11.9 and i just checked my receipt from fillistruder and the cartridge from the kit I bought is a 30 amp 24v heater
