mellow nf crazy hotend
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The Mosquito costs more than some complete printers. Why would a sane person pay this much ? What do you get that you don't get with an E3D V6 for example ?
This is not a poke but a serious question because I always wondered why anybody would buy a hot end THAT expensive (unless it's for bragging rights) -
@jens55 said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
The Mosquito costs more than some complete printers. Why would a sane person pay this much ? What do you get that you don't get with an E3D V6 for example ?
This is not a poke but a serious question because I always wondered why anybody would buy a hot end THAT expensive (unless it's for bragging rights)The ability to change nozzles without a complex procedure involving needing three hands and working with a fully heated hot end at over 200°C.
Yes, it's expensive, but making the process of changing nozzles ridiculously simple and making it possible to do so while the hot end is at room temperature is worth every penny.
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@jens55 In addition to what @grizewald has said, I would add that despite what many hot end manufacturers claim, heat creep can be an issue - especially with PLA and especially when the filaments is moving forward at very slow speed like with highly details parts. So if you come across that type of problem, then a Mosquito with it's bi-metallic, thin wall (about 75 microns) heat break would be worth every penny.
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Thank you for clarifying.
I do come across heat creep .... as a matter of fact I am struggling with it right now with a Chimera (clone) hot end. I am thinking of spending some money on a titanium heat break instead of the steel one I currently use. -
@jens55 said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
Thank you for clarifying.
I do come across heat creep .... as a matter of fact I am struggling with it right now with a Chimera (clone) hot end. I am thinking of spending some money on a titanium heat break instead of the steel one I currently use.Yes, mixing and multiple nozzle hot ends that share a common heater block are about the worse usage case for heat creep that you'll come across. As a long time user of Diamond mixing hot ends, I can vouch for this fact. The reason being that the unused filaments(s) don't move forward so the filament itself bridges the heat break. That is to say, heat will be conducted up through the filament itself as it sits there in a static position. So not only do you need an efficient heat break to prevent conduction up through the metal tube, you also need an efficient, cold, heat sink above the heat break that will dissipate the heat that the filament itself conducts. In "normal" hot ends, this isn't so much of problem because the filament is always moving forward.
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@bearer said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
of course they can, but not cheaply.
actually, no, there are technologies they did not master yet ... dunno if you know but for e.g. till mid 2019 they had to import tips for the ballpoint pens! They are the biggest manufacturer of ballpoint pens on the planet but the whole PRC was unable to make a ball that goes into ballpoint pen and they had to import them. mid 2019 was the eureka moment when they said "we now know how to make them", dunno if they are in production these days or will be soon but... so, far from "they can do everything"
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@dragonn said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
can you show you setup, how is you coiling made? I am running a Trinaglelab Dragon Hotend, a slight different Mosquito clone and it works fine.
well for start you do not need to cool it at all and it should work (so they say), but there's really not much there, I tapped the holes to mount 20mm fan and fan is non stop on and that's it (on the thermal images that fan is off so I can take a picture) .. you can see the two dots on the top of the hotend thats where the fan screw in and it cools it... behind the hotend (2cm) there is X rail 2020 extrusion with steel mgn12h rail on top, after few hours of ABS printing the X extrusion and steel rail were HOT HOT, I'd estimate 50C (didn't measure sorry) .. I can shoot some pics but I disasembled the whole thing right now
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@deckingman said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
Buy cheap, buy twice.
yes and no ... tbh I purchased it to test it not to use it, the problem is, when you hold it it looks so well built that it gives a very good vibe so before properly testing it in vice I decided to use it... and it costed me time but .. not too big of a deal... I'm still happy I purchased it for test... I just hate I did not just test it in vice first for half a day before going forward
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The real Mosquito has all kinds of problems with jamming with pla, even with a fan. The forums and discord’s are littered with people complaining about mosquito pla jams. It’s either heat creep or too small diam tube.
Pla is a difficult case because its hdt is so low, but it’s ironic that the most expensive hot end can’t reliably print the most common cheapest filament
CroXY - Crossed Gantry Printer, Ultibots D300VS+, Custom CoreXYU
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@jens55 said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
The Mosquito costs more than some complete printers. Why would a sane person pay this much ? What do you get that you don't get with an E3D V6 for example ?
This is not a poke but a serious question because I always wondered why anybody would buy a hot end THAT expensive (unless it's for bragging rights)'cause nothing on those printers is wort having... I tested how much I can put into one wanhao I3 and after 2000$ I stopped ... not even the cables on those printers are ok
.. if you want that level of quality they are great but ..now, expensive is very subjective term .. V6 is $65 it's big, it's clunky and is not very good design imo
.. try printing miniatures out of PLA with it and you'll know .. try printing slow PP with it and you'll know .. try printing anything very slow with it and you will know .. it's very log, it's not very cold and all in all it is decade old design ... what's good about e3d is nozzles, they are awesome, and that heatblocks thye have are decent (prc ones are otoh same quality 10% the cost) .. so the V6 is tbh outdated big time.. and why it gets you better quality then some shitty mk6/mk8/mk10/mk11 clone el-cleapo prc printers come with is usually not because you moved to V6 but because you moved to e3d nozzle.mosquito, as advertised (can't say, still have not tested original, friend got original he should be puting it on his D9 these days so we'll know), can do all that ... first it's small and light and short .. if you ever printed shitty materials like PP you know short is super important .. the heat creep does not exist so you can print slow ... you don't have creep issues if you add vulcano, 1mm nozzle and you push kilo of filament an hour, but print slow, 0.02mm layer, 0.2mm nozzle, 5mm/sec and you see how your V6 will block ... they say mosquito will not, dunno, we'll see .. the mellow blocks for sure .. price .. well it's price of 3 v6, that's not that much more expensive, and even if you pimp your v6 with better throat, better heat block .. you end up with $100 so mosquito is just 50% over .. for a lot more performance - as advertised!!!! before I try original it's all alleged for me
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@grizewald said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
The ability to change nozzles without a complex procedure involving needing three hands and working with a fully heated hot end at over 200°C.
I know for them that's a big selling point, for me that's a load of... I never had an issue changing nozzle on any of my printers except on those where I made the hotend myself where nozzle is just integral part of everything and is not changeable... and like you change nozzles twice a day so that's a huge problem
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@jens55 said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
titanium heat break instead of the steel one I currently use.
get the original from e3d (heat break), the prc ones are bad, they are not polished inside
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@wesc said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
The real Mosquito has all kinds of problems with jamming with pla, even with a fan. The forums and discord’s are littered with people complaining about mosquito pla jams. It’s either heat creep or too small diam tube.
had no clue, good to know
Pla is a difficult case because its hdt is so low, but it’s ironic that the most expensive hot end can’t reliably print the most common cheapest filament
well I always suggest ppl wanting to upgrade hotend that if they are going to print mostly PLA their original "shitty" PTFE lined extruder will usually perform much better than fancy expensive all metal one.. I don't print with PLA much .. this extruder I tested first with ABS (did actually a 20+ hours single print with it without problem) but was not able to print a single line with PLA, jams immediately.. cooling, no cooling does not make a difference
... but the thing is I wanted this ender5 to be PLA printer, I have already 3 dedicated ABS printers, wanted E5 to be PLA printer and this new toolchanger from e3d to be the "universal/testing" platform .. so I'm going to dig out my original aero that's sitting somewhere in some box and use that on ender and I'll use the flex3drive on the toolchanger -
what's totally crazy here is that PETG is behaving like polimorf
.. the mellow top is touching 8mm thick almost full infill (3mm+3mm solid and 2mm 80% infill with 6 perimeters 0.5mm) and two M2.5 screws that go trough it and reach embedded M2.5 nut.. mellow's heatsink managed to heat up screws so much that nuts sank into plastic more than .5mm (maybe even a whole mm) in "no time printing" .. and there are M2.5 washers, steel ones, under those nuts .. that tells me the top of the heatsink (30C on original images) is way over 90C -
@smece Well it's called a "crazy" hot end - guess that's why
My best guess would be that the 4 "pillars" between the heater block and the (what should be ) cold part are made from solid rod, whereas on the genuine Mosquito, they are are the same 75 micron thin wall tubing. Are you able to take it apart to check?
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@smece I am cooling my Dragon Hotend with two 30mm fans in a push-pull configuration and I am cooling my V6 also in this way. The intake fan is a Sunon 30x10mm and the outtake is also a Sunon but 30x20mm. In this way I think my hotend cooling chamber is under lower pressure with sucks even more air.
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@jens55 The E3D V6 isn't a particularly good design. It works, and thermal management is OK, but there are mechanical problems.
The mount is large and round, with no flats to prevent the heatsink from rotating in the extruder- you have to rely on clamping pressure to prevent the heatsink from turning. The heatbreak threads into the heatsink, but there is no way to twist it in securely. The result is that through temperature cycling and vibration, it eventually works loose during prints and allows the heater block and heatbreak to wobble, completely wrecking print quality. The heatsink fins are round and the fan mount is a piece of plastic that snaps on. There's nothing to stop the fan from rotating on the heatsink, and it does, whichever way the wires pull it. Sooner or later it contacts the heater block and melts. The heatbreak throat is very thin and can easily be broken if twisted too hard, and will readily bend if you crash the nozzle into the bed (and who has never done that?).
I've been using a $18 hotend from China on my printer for close to two years without problems. It uses the same round mount E3D uses, but makes several improvements over the E3D unit. The heatbreak is held in place with set screws, so it can't rotate. The heatbreak throat is thicker than E3D's and doesn't bend when you have a head crash. The supplied fan is junk (aren't they all?) but it mounts on a metal bracket that is screwed to the heatsink so it never loosens or rotates. Replacing the fan with a $7 Sunon unit solves the fan problem. It uses E3D type nozzles. I print ABS, TPU, PETG, and occasionally PLA without any issues.
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I can see some issues with the V6 but if it is as bad as it sounds then why did Slice Engineering make the 'Copperhead' hot end which is a somewhat improved V6 ?
I don't actually use the V6 heat sink, I use the Chimera heat sink. So far I have only bent one heat break and it took considerable effort. It is still quite usable although when you use the bent heat break in a two material setup it gets to be a pain to keep track of the offsets between nozzles which keeps changing based on the rotational position of the heat break. There are set screws for the heat break and because the nozzle top tightens against the heat break bottom, I have never run into an issue with the nozzle loosening. I have run into the nozzle loosening issue in the common hot ends as used for example in the Creality CR10 as the nozzle never locks against the heat break.
mrehorstdmd, any chance of a URL to point to the hot end you are using ?
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@deckingman said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
My best guess would be that the 4 "pillars" between the heater block and the (what should be ) cold part are made from solid rod, whereas on the genuine Mosquito, they are are the same 75 micron thin wall tubing. Are you able to take it apart to check?
It came disassembled
.. yes they are tubing, I'd say regular stainless steel, they are very thin walled, easy to damage, tubes ... I didn't measure how thick they are, eyeballing them I'd say .1mm but I will check them under microscope to measure exact thickness -
@dragonn said in mellow nf crazy hotend:
Dragon Hotend
Seen the dragon few weeks ago, looks like they copied the idea from mosquito but made it bigger and easier to manufacture maybe, dunno ..
I'm cooling the
mosquitomellow crazy hotend with single 25x5mm fan (can't fit bigger fan there nor there will be point imo .. now 25x5mm fans are puny as you know and I have not seen 25x10 .. I have only one on mellow and in theory, I can add one on the back to have push-pull too but they are advertising that it can work without any fans so while it can maybe made to work acceptably, imo this is a total fail I'll rather go back to V6 or TitanAero as I don't see the benefit of mosquitothis clone then... I wanted to use it to print PLA not PEEK
